Stop & Go Here???

[AceLuby]

OK, so this isn't really a hand post, but I do want to talk about the overly popular stop 'n go. It seems that everyone and their grandma wants to stop 'n go all the time for the wrong reasons. I've seen it in about 10 posts a day for the last month and I think it is being WAY overused.

Why are we stop 'n going the best hand PF?
Why would we stop 'n go with 30+ BB's?
For god's sake how are you supposed to stop 'n go when IN POSITION!!!

IMO the stop 'n go should be used on RARE occasion. I would like to have some discussion on this, because seriously, I think this is getting ridiculous.

[mornelth]

Usual thought process going into these posts:

"I had a decent hand PF and got it all-in and I lost a tournament. I wonder if I would have won a tornament if I ... USED STOP-n-GO???

Me - I probably use Stop-n-Go once for every 5-6 tourneys I play or so (not counting the ones where I'm out in first 30 minutes either).

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
Me - I probably use Stop-n-Go once for every 5-6 tourneys I play or so (not counting the ones where I'm out in first 30 minutes either).

[/ QUOTE ] wow, that sounds like way too many times. I use the stop and go maybe once or twice a month.

[Rekwob]

another question, why are we stop and going when we flop a monster

[AceLuby]

I think new posters need to see that this move is used VERY RARELY. For me it's about 1 in 30 tournaments that I make it past the 2nd hour.

I just find that when a SNG is suggested that it's almost always results oriented and more often than not against a decent RANGE of hands it is not the correct option.

[aejones]

really small pairs and really small aces for fe vs hands that dominate your ass

[AceLuby]

[ QUOTE ]
really small pairs and really small aces for fe vs hands that dominate your ass

[/ QUOTE ]

right, but I've seen so many people pulling SNG's w/ QQ (there's one today), I mean it's the 3rd best starting hand in the game and we want to maximize FE postflop?!?! That's retarded. I've also seen it w/ AK... Does anyone have a link to the original Fossilman post on when to use the stop n go?

[jcm4ccc]

The stop and go should be used only rarely, is almost always a play of desperation, and rarely works. Here is why:

The first requirement of the stop and go is that you are first to act on the flop. Duh. But here are other important elements of the stop and go:

1. You have no preflop FE. This is crucial, because you are giving the villain three extra cards with which to make his decision . If you have preflop FE, then you should push preflop and force the villain to make that decision without that extra information.

Now, sometimes you are in a situation in which you think you have no preflop FE, but actually you do. Not everybody plays correctly. Let’s say, for instance, that the SB raises your blind. If you push, the SB is getting 2:1 to call, which means he should call regardless of his hand. But, as we all know, just because he should call doesn’t mean he will call. So, if you think you have preflop FE, it is probably better to push.

2. Since you have no preflop FE, this means that you are almost always pushing a small bet on the flop. Your bet will almost always be less than pot-sized.

3. Since your bet on the flop is small, it will rarely work. You will almost always get called.

4. Just because it rarely works is not a valid argument against it.

5. Since the stop and go rarely works, you should generally only use it in two cases. The first case is when you planned to push preflop anyway. The second case is when you are torn between pushing and folding. In that case, the stop and go might give you that extra edge to go ahead and make the play.

The most common mistakes in doing a stop and go are the following:

1. You have preflop FE.
2. You are probably ahead preflop and don’t want the villain to fold, even if the flop misses him. For example, if you have 88 and you suspect the villain has AK, you probably don’t want to do the stop and go. By doing the stop and go, you are forcing the villain to play perfectly. He will call when the flop hits him, and fold when the flop misses him.
3. You should have folded the hand, but decided to get fancy with the stop and go. Remember that the stop and go rarely works. You should always expect to get called.

[Art Vandelay]

NoahSD wrote a pretty damn good post about the SNG a couple months ago. I agree that its being widely misused (or misthought of in the case of "could I have done a SNG?" type posts).

Link

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
another question, why are we stop and going when we flop a monster

[/ QUOTE ] that's when you do the stop and stop.