Can an abc predictable preflop player beat 100-200?

[fishboy]

I've been haivng a discussion with different people lately about whether a abc predictable preflop player can beat higher games. Can someone playing very tight solid poker beat higher games? Or do they have to mix it up? And if have to mix it up in what way do you need to mix it up to vere from solid pro play?

If a player plays solid and doeswn't make mistakes how can he not beat any game? I understand that hourly rate might be better if he made some plays sometimes but wouldnt he still win? And when making plays isn't it to create an illusion of gambling and to actually play solid poker? It almost sounds like people think you can't play solid poker and beat higher games. That you need to be getting out htere doing unorthodox things all the time?

So what do you guys think does solid abc take the money or will he lose?

[daryn]

it depends who is in the game.. as always. if it's just regular fish (you do see them up there) then he can win. if it's those near maniac overaggro guys, predictable play will prob. get eaten alive.

[DeathDonkey]

fishboy, your post implies "solid poker" and "solid preflop" are the same thing. Most of the laggy tricky tough players in big games will give action to people who deserve action, and our theoretical tight solid preflop player they will play similarly preflop with a bit of extra hands thrown in because they will be bored and for deception and then destroy the guy after the flop.

It doesn't matter much because your theoretical player hardly exists, you don't become a good preflop player without starting to learn some good postflop things too. You may play 20% of your hands and raise with 12% of them before the flop or whatever but that's not a great preflop player - even preflop is very situational in tough games and the decisions to be made there aren't trivial.

-DeathDonkey

[fishboy]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say our theoretical preflop player doesn't exist? I know your not saying that nobody plays abc poker in higher games?

What i'm getting at is if i plays abc correct by the book solid preflop strategy and play solid(meaning not making mistakes but not that tricky) postflop i won't beat toguh games? What do you mean the laggy will destroy me after the flop? How does he do this? If i'm not making mistakes how will he destroy me? By running over me stealing all low flops? Would this work? Your saying they will destroy me is very vague. And what would i have to do to offset they destroying me postflop.

I'm not being sarcastic btw i respect your opinions and enjoy reading your posts.

[Abbaddabba]

One problem is that people who consider themselves to be 'solid abc' define the term based on how they play, or how they play when they're focussed.

So really what they're asking is, "can i win at high stakes poker?". And the reality is that if you have to ask that question, there's almost no chance that you'll be a winner at a high stakes game online.

[ QUOTE ]
What i'm getting at is if i plays abc correct by the book solid preflop strategy and play solid(meaning not making mistakes but not that tricky) postflop i won't beat toguh games? What do you mean the laggy will destroy me after the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your definition of "solid abc" is probably not in line with what a good players figures actually would be.

If "solid abc" can be characterized as 30/20/2 with an ASB of 40 at 6max tables; then yes, someone with those characteristics can win.

[HOWMANY]

An "abc" player probably doesn't defend blinds enough. When they do defend blinds they'll be folding stuff like KT or even an Ace on a 752r flop. If every time you c/r flop in blind defense situation you have a piece, any moderately observant opponent will bet/fold unless they have a good reason to continue.

So basically the "abc" player is getting a new one ripped into them every single blind steal/defense situation which is pretty often in this sort of game. We haven't even taken into account the lags that are going to raise you every single time on the turn when a big card comes.

However it doesn't really matter, because most people aren't that dumb. Eventually they're going to realize that they are just throwing their blinds away before and after the flop and that people are bluffing them constantly postflop and they'll adjust. Some people adjust bad, some adjust good.

[fishboy]

i'm asking a theoretical question if someone plays solid abc will they win is all. Saying if you have to ask you can't is just silly. There are some great players that play low that might be able to beat them but they don't know cause they havent tried so they ask a buddy who plays those games. does that mean they cant be it becasue they asked? You don't know til you try.

[3rdCheckRaise]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you mean the laggy will destroy me after the flop? How does he do this? If i'm not making mistakes how will he destroy me?

[/ QUOTE ]
How often your "solid" hand will be best post flop? How often will you flop a pair? How often will you have to call down with A-high or lay down overpair agaist agro opponent?
How can you be possitive that you will be the one "not making a mistake"? The higher you play the more difficult situations you will have to face against players that make thier living by puting opponents to the test post flop and making better dessisions post flop.

[sweetjazz]

Maybe this will be an insightful post...maybe it won't...

Let's say that "ABC" poker is making the correct play given the limited information available. If someone is playing maniacally, that could involve calling down K or Q high on certain boards. Let's agree that our "ABC" player is capable of this.

His only weakness is that he is predictable. Opponents know the few situations he is likely to bluff in and his bets/calls/raises tend to defend his range pretty narrowly.

How can he lose? Well, if the aggressive players use this additional information available to them to extract the max from him and lose the minimum. If the aggro players play way too loose or spew too much or don't catch on to his predictability, "ABC" can win. But once they know his style, they can find counterstrategies that he can't beat even from a game-theoretic point of view, without adding making his strategy more unpredictable.

In short, if there is asymmetric information sharing between players (so that some players are easier to read than others), then there is an edge that goes to the less predictable players. That edge leads to an EV advantage and also means that the unpredictable player can play more hands profitably than the predictable player.

[Peter_rus]

You can beat any game if your opponent's play is predictable. If you're predictable you'll lose in a games if it's full of thinking players.