The old if I check I lose play...so why not bet

[salesbeast]

I hate checking only to lose and norm will fire a nice bet and take it down...good play or bad play or player specific?

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $95.45
Hero (BB): $47.05
UTG: $48.65
MP: $17.45
CO: $59.55
BTN: $22.60

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $1.50</font>, BTN calls $1.50, SB folds, Hero calls $1.00

Flop: ($4.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $2.00</font>, BTN folds, Hero calls $2.00

Turn: ($8.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $3.50</font>, Hero calls $3.50

River: ($15.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $10.00</font>, CO folds

Pot Size: $25.75 ($0.75 Rake)

[scallop]

Title should be "I think I chased to float, but now I'm not sure I have the cajones to fire"

Your line = flush draw.

Fold PF.

Dont do this sorta stuff. You dont need to.

[sightless]

reload before hand starts
PF i like 3betting to 7.50$ or so
your hand is pretty good and this is a good time to raise and win it preflop


fold on the flop you have king high and this is a bad flop for you

[salesbeast]

But why fold KQ pre in a 6 max game?? I value that hand like AJ in fr is that not correct?

[scallop]

[ QUOTE ]
reload before hand starts
PF i like 3betting to 7.50$ or so
your hand is pretty good and this is a good time to raise and win it preflop


fold on the flop you have king high and this is a bad flop for you

[/ QUOTE ]


Why are you advocating 3-betting a marginal holding OOP ?

[itWASaDREAM]

I think you can raise pf here to win most of the time.

also, what do you except to get called with when your hand looks so much like a draw. every draw got there by the river and you should be able yo bluff the river and fold most 2 pair or worse hands. also, I don't understand your plan in this hand. your floating oop on two streets. doesn't make any sense to me....

[scallop]

[ QUOTE ]
But why fold KQ pre in a 6 max game?? I value that hand like AJ in fr is that not correct?

[/ QUOTE ]


Im not really folding the hand im folding the position


KQ is a fine holding, but its not the nuts, and its tough to play OOP in a multiway raised pot, and I dont even think it's a close decision.

[itWASaDREAM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
reload before hand starts
PF i like 3betting to 7.50$ or so
your hand is pretty good and this is a good time to raise and win it preflop


fold on the flop you have king high and this is a bad flop for you

[/ QUOTE ]


Why are you advocating 3-betting a marginal holding OOP ?

[/ QUOTE ]

because your going to fold a lot of better AJ type hands. and if he's a semi solid player his late position range is so large, but his thre bet call range is much more narrow. he is going to be folding a lot of pp when he misses sets.

[sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
reload before hand starts
PF i like 3betting to 7.50$ or so
your hand is pretty good and this is a good time to raise and win it preflop


fold on the flop you have king high and this is a bad flop for you

[/ QUOTE ]


Why are you advocating 3-betting a marginal holding OOP ?

[/ QUOTE ]

its a good spot for it. Co opened, button cold called, lots of dead money in the pot and we are way ahead of their range

[scallop]

This reply Is from this thread

I thought it was worth a read for most people, as I think it conveys position fairly well.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
reload before hand starts
PF i like 3betting to 7.50$ or so
your hand is pretty good and this is a good time to raise and win it preflop


fold on the flop you have king high and this is a bad flop for you

[/ QUOTE ]


Why are you advocating 3-betting a marginal holding OOP ?

[/ QUOTE ]

its a good spot for it. Co opened, button cold called, lots of dead money in the pot and we are way ahead of their range

[/ QUOTE ]


Here's my honest to god take on this sorta thing.

Poker hands are defined by our decision to enter the pot, and this occur before the flop.

When a player raises I think it's fair to say they mostly hold pairs, aces, high kings. Clearly KQ is not ahead of an openers range. We are probablly close to even with C/O calling range, because these include pairs, aces, high kings, high queens and suited connectors.

Whilst out decision beings preflop, the hand is defined on the flop. I dont see why you would want to call in a situation where you are likely unsure about the strenght of your hand, and you are first to act meaning that your hand's strength (or lack thereof) is only confounded by the lack of information you will have by playing OOP on every street.

Do you want to play for stacks on a Q72/K94 rainbow board ?

As for raising pf. This is a squeeze play. I love to do these, but my main requirement is that I will have position if I am called, because this will allow to play the hand as well as possible.

For example take a look at this hand

The idea is that I get to squeeze, but when I'm called I can play the hand with what tends to be a marginal holding with position and thus with as much information as possible.

I will conced that players who raise out of the blinds are representing strong hands, but in my expirience If I have position on such an opponent I like to call because they are telling me they have a hand they might want to go broke with and I know exactly what kind of board I am willing to play on.

I just feel that given the simplicity with which most players at this level (non 2+2'ers) think about this game, we do no need to put ourselves into difficult spots pf, when we should be able to wait for better spots.

In short, I dont think there is anything remotely weak about folding KQ, KJ, QJ type of trap hands pf when we are faced with a small raise and are out of position.

I even fold them UTG and UTG+1 now, which you might think is crazy, but I have decided there is little value raising them. The same goes for suited aces, raising these hands is basically raising to steal, and I have to make 3 to 4 players fold in order for my attempt to win the button and 5 - or 6 players to fold in order to steal. When I am called by a non-blind opponent I have a weak holding OOP and I put myself in that position.

Conversley When In late position I open up my requirements MASSIVELY. If there are limpers I LOVE to steal, and I can do this with ATC, because even If I am called I have position.

I dunno if this helps at all.