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#91
10-04-2007, 06:22 PM
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Re: Why 3bet?
[ QUOTE ]
As poker players we strive for the most +EV line, not the easiest. [/ QUOTE ] Its funny, I've watched this forum go from saying "its most +EV to find the easiest line for you to play" to saying "the most +EV line /= the easiest play," and now people use the later as what I see as a cop-out to make a bad, fishy call with an unmade hand out of position in a raised pot. Are you going to fold if the flop comes KT2 and he bets? Then you shouldnt call preflop, because thats whats going to happen 2/3 of the time. 
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#92
10-04-2007, 06:28 PM
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Re: Why 3bet?
It really comes down to how good of a player you are. At some level, the easy play is the most EV. At another level, a more +EV play might emerge.
There is a point at which the easy play becomes less and less optimal.
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#93
10-04-2007, 06:32 PM
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Re: Why 3bet?
Traz, you're totally right there about it coming down to having the ability to make the best play. But my stand is also that coldcalling preflop is never a good play, no matter how bad you are postflop, if you're just playing fit-or-fold.
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#95
10-04-2007, 06:37 PM
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Re: Why 3bet?
Youre better off 3betting preflop and exploiting his tendancy to steal too often. If you wait to donk the flop then you're not really exploiting anything, and you're giving him a chance to pull ahead. Plus, now you've got to balance the times when you check the flop when you get there.
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#96
10-04-2007, 07:10 PM
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Re: Why 3bet?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] As poker players we strive for the most +EV line, not the easiest. [/ QUOTE ] Its funny, I've watched this forum go from saying "its most +EV to find the easiest line for you to play" to saying "the most +EV line /= the easiest play," and now people use the later as what I see as a cop-out to make a bad, fishy call with an unmade hand out of position in a raised pot. Are you going to fold if the flop comes KT2 and he bets? Then you shouldnt call preflop, because thats whats going to happen 2/3 of the time. [/ QUOTE ] im cr alot of flops
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#97
10-04-2007, 10:11 PM
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Re: Why 3bet?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] As poker players we strive for the most +EV line, not the easiest. [/ QUOTE ] Its funny, I've watched this forum go from saying "its most +EV to find the easiest line for you to play" to saying "the most +EV line /= the easiest play," and now people use the later as what I see as a cop-out to make a bad, fishy call with an unmade hand out of position in a raised pot. Are you going to fold if the flop comes KT2 and he bets? Then you shouldnt call preflop, because thats whats going to happen 2/3 of the time. [/ QUOTE ] im cr alot of flops [/ QUOTE ] That's pretty key. And I think that you, especially being at NL600, can appreciate that without this key strategic fact, coldcalling preflop is a bad play. Especially given that this may not be obvious to the majority of people reading this thread, it should be made clear.
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#98
10-05-2007, 07:09 AM
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Re: Why 3bet?
yeah if you just give up on a non A/J flop then calling is pretty bad. However, you shouldn't be.
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#99
10-05-2007, 11:32 AM
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Re: Why 3bet?
As the OP of this thread I really want to thank all the posters here for this interesting discussion(s). Actually I have nothing to add right now, but I think I learned a lot from just lurking this thread.
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#100
10-05-2007, 12:13 PM
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Re: Why 3bet?
If he starts 4 betting you light on account of your 3 betting light, the math runs onto biblical proportions and you start having to make marginal decisions for a lot of chips which is a good thing to avoid at micros in my opinion, but yeah the percentage of time you three bet and get 4 bet and have to fold should change the numbers dramatically if an opponent adjusts to a loosened 3 betting range. Although i have no formulae to demonstrate this.
Nice post. Mack
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