No state project

[ShakeZula06]

Below is a response I made in the other now giant thread.
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except Dubai only got that way because of billions perhaps trillions in state subsidies from stolen oil money. I really don't think it's economically feasible to start from scratch unless you're the Saudi royal family.

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This is kind of a late response but oh well [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I don't see why this would be unfeasable without coercion. All you need is a movement like the Free State project. You get a few thousand (ok, maybe a few ten of thousand) of people, of which invariably will have some business owners who could move their business there, some venture capitalists that will be interested in investing in some business over there. Obviously some construction companies will be interested in going over there, we'd need a lot of stuff built.

The fact that the internet and overnight shipping is the norm now a days means where ever you are in the world you have access to tons of stuff.

Of course it would take some time and it wouldn't be easy, but I don't see why it wouldn't be feasable, at least a hell of a lot more feasable then America becoming AC in our lifetimes.

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Now of course there would be problems such as making sure whatever nation sold away their juridiction doesn't just go "lol, nvm give us our land back", but obviously precautions can be taken to defend against that.

In most western nations (the only exception was the US) slavery was ended nonviolently, usually consisting of buying the slaves from the slaveowners and setting them free. That seemed to work much better then having the slaves suggest to their owners that they let them go because it's morally wrong or produces less then a economy without slavery.

What are the objections to such a project? I would think start up investment would be the biggest detriment, but then again I think investors would be lining up for tax-free investments.

*I would prefer not to have to debate the merits of market anarchism or hear "no this won't work because market anarchism would be horrible/unstable/what have you.

[phantomlimb]

I don't know if this is really a problem with the idea, but I'd like to hear your thoughts... I think, even on this forum, their are a lot of people who are generally alligned by disagree over one MAIN point... there are the anarcho-capitalists, and then the small-state libertarians... who agree on many issues, but not on argueably the most important one... so would only one or the other be allowed, or would they work togehter, and if they don't work together - would it really work?

[ShakeZula06]

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I don't know if this is really a problem with the idea, but I'd like to hear your thoughts... I think, even on this forum, their are a lot of people who are generally alligned by disagree over one MAIN point... there are the anarcho-capitalists, and then the small-state libertarians... who agree on many issues, but not on argueably the most important one... so would only one or the other be allowed, or would they work togehter, and if they don't work together - would it really work?

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It would just be a territory with no coercize monopoly. Minarchists would be allowed, but they of course couldn't institute any type of government.

[phantomlimb]

So what you mean is, we could come, but we would have to try it your way first? I'd be okay with that, but I can see it leading to conflict if issues arise without the existence of the state... now I know AC people are just gonna come tell me issues won't arise, but statists are usually as sure there will be problems as ACists are there WON'T be problems.

To be honest, I'd be willing to live in an ACist territory to see how it worked out, even if I think it will have problems, it certainly would be better then America, i'd imagine...

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread or anything, I was just thinking about this aspect of it :P

[tolbiny]

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now I know AC people are just gonna come tell me issues won't arise, but statists are usually as sure there will be problems as ACists are there WON'T be problems.


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Its not that there won't be problems, but that solutions to those problems, and mitigating undesirable consequences can be found without resorting to institutionalized coercion.

[phantomlimb]

I'd be interested to see if it works in practice, reguardless of my opinion..

[TomCollins]

The biggest problem I forsee is a lack of pussy there.

[ShakeZula06]

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The biggest problem I forsee is a lack of pussy there.

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Dude, think about it, a place where people are able experiment with drugs without any fear of being arrested for it. A place where you can't get arrested for underaged drinking or being drunk in public. This could easily be the biggest vacation and party spot in the world!
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So what you mean is, we could come, but we would have to try it your way first? I'd be okay with that, but I can see it leading to conflict if issues arise without the existence of the state... now I know AC people are just gonna come tell me issues won't arise, but statists are usually as sure there will be problems as ACists are there WON'T be problems.

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Of course if you see some problems with the place, you'd be welcome to leave. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

And just to preempt this statement from some statists:

"oh so love it or leave it is fine when ACists are in control rather then statists"

Well yes, just because you don't enjoy voluntary action doesn't mean you can try to institute coercize action.

[tomdemaine]

Though becuase the drug war would still be in effect elsewhere the main exports would almost certainly be heroin pot etc. Also with no extradition treaties it may become a hideout for all kinds of unsavory characters which I'm pretty sure would be all the excuse that the US or another country would need to "liberate" it from clutches of these people and we're back to sqaure one but with more bodybags.

Again like the Ron Paul argument I absolutely hope that I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

[ShakeZula06]

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Though becuase the drug war would still be in effect elsewhere the main exports would almost certainly be heroin pot etc.

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Maybe, but there's lots of countries around the world where people can do this type of thing.
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Also with no extradition treaties it may become a hideout for all kinds of unsavory characters

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Well, perhaps courts and police could extradite violent criminals. People certainly wouldn't want them in the area.