10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?

[Proofrock]

Capper just sat down, so no read. That being said, I can't think of a hand in a capping range that will call a bet that I beat, but I can't think of a hand in his capping range that beats me that plays this so passively. Thoughts?

I'm sure there's a better way to play it. I'm guessing b/f river? Thoughts on the turn play?

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 caps</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (7.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP3 checks.

River: (7.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

[RobA]

If you are assuming this guy is solid then I think your logic is reasonable in the way you played the turn and the river.

But I think you may be making a bigger mistake by giving capper to much credit to start. Isn't it at least enough likely that this guy is a spazz that you have to bet your TPTK with a nut-flush draw on the turn. Sure vs. a range of TT+, AK then you are behind. But this is an unknown. Maybe he capped with T9s or KTs, or 55-99.

Once he checks the turn its obviously much less likely that he has TT+ or AK. So it seems likely that he spazzed preflop. If he spazzed preflop maybe he'll spazz with a bluff on the river.

[goofball]

I think you should have stopped the action at the flop and asked for a discussion of flop turn lines. I think a checkraise on the flop is better, I think the river action is very good, but there's a problem with the hand as a whole and that not enough money went into the pot.

[One Outer]

I prefer a c/r on the flop, fwiw, but the big streets are more interesting.

I can't really fault you for the turn action without a read. I would probably bet that because I'm a spewtard and omg I just picked up so many outs but I can't fight your line there. I'm going to be really interested in what others have to say about this.

I think once villain checks the turn you have to conclude that villain probably just spazzed out with some sort of suited broadway hand, 99, something like that. I'm probably betting the river for value because I think he checks behind a lot with the spazz range.

Just throwing it out there, but I feel like when I see stuff like this the villain seems to usually have just misclicked.

[sirlurkalot]

c/r the flop, if he spazzed pf, this is the only place you're likely to get paid.

[SNOWBALL]

I think villain has exactly KK fwiw.

[swope]

[ QUOTE ]
I think villain has exactly KK fwiw.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont think anyone at 10/20 plays KK so strong pf then checks that turn. im putting him on like, 99, 88, or 77 and hoping to isolate.

Flop: (13.50 SB) Q, J, 2 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, UTG+1 folds.

kings would surely raise here, no?

then again i also bet that turn.

[Chuck]

Nothing wrong with folding AQs to an early position raiser at a 10 handed table. Especially in early middle.

Turn check was the right play. Hard for your bet to get called or raised by a worse hand (given his cap) and a free card is fine.

For the river I think b/f is the worst option. You've shown weakness on the turn and a maniac player might try to outplay you with A9s, medium pair, etc.

[Proofrock]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should have stopped the action at the flop and asked for a discussion of flop turn lines. I think a checkraise on the flop is better, I think the river action is very good, but there's a problem with the hand as a whole and that not enough money went into the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you explain why a flop check-raise is better?

Also, I agree that it feels like more money should have gone into the pot, but I'm not sure how to best to get it in. It seems like every time I bet and get raised on the turn it's from a hand I'm pretty far behind, but there aren't a lot of worse hands in a reasonable range that will just call the turn that I'm ahead of given preflop.

[ssmallz]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are assuming this guy is solid then I think your logic is reasonable in the way you played the turn and the river.

But I think you may be making a bigger mistake by giving capper to much credit to start. Isn't it at least enough likely that this guy is a spazz that you have to bet your TPTK with a nut-flush draw on the turn. Sure vs. a range of TT+, AK then you are behind. But this is an unknown. Maybe he capped with T9s or KTs, or 55-99.

Once he checks the turn its obviously much less likely that he has TT+ or AK. So it seems likely that he spazzed preflop. If he spazzed preflop maybe he'll spazz with a bluff on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily. Put yourself in villains shoes. This is exactly how I'd play KK. I cap pf which is standard and some tag bets into me on a QJx flop. His range has to be AA, KK, QQ, JJ or AQ. I don't really want to get into a raising war here so I call. On the turn, his check looks defensive AA, KK, or AQ, and his range still has me crushed so I check. On the river, its pretty clear he doesn't have AA or a set so I can bet hoping he'll pay off w/AQ.