A few hands from a live 10/20 game

[Proofrock]

$10/20 half-kill game at Northern Quest casino in Spokane, WA. It seems like this is the biggest live casino game within 100 miles (if not, somebody PM me please) and it only runs a few times a week. Half of the table are regulars who are typically a little too loose and passive preflop, play pretty transparently postflop and don't value bet often enough on the river.

I am not a regular, and I'd say I have a TAG table image -- so far I haven't cold-called, but have 3-bet a few times preflop and capped a few flops without the nuts, so several of these players seem to think I'm too aggressive.

Anyway, onto the hands.

Hand 1:
LP and SB are friends who routinely flip over their cards and check it down heads-up postflop. Neither is particularly tight or loose, aggressive or passive.

LP regular raises, SB regular calls, I 3bet K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB, LP calls, SB says "Man, you always 3-bet. I 4-bet you." I call, LP calls.

Flop (12 SB): 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
SB bets, I raise, LP calls, SB says "I 3bet you," I cap, LP calls, SB calls.

Turn (12 BB): 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB checks, I bet, LP calls, SB calls.

River (15 BB): 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB checks, I bet and plan to call one raise because the pot is big ...

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Hand 2:
Same LP Villain from hand 1. It's a kill pot with the kill posted by a weak SB who doesn't defend.

I raise A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG, folds to LP who cold-calls, everybody else folds.

Flop (5.6 SB): T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
I bet, LP raises, I call figuring he'll check behind on the turn if he's raising for a free card. I didn't feel good about calling, but didn't feel good about folding or 3-betting either.

Turn (~4.5 BB): Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I check, LP bets, I raise, LP thinks thinks for a bit and then calls.

River (8.5BB): J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
I check and call.

[Moemar]

Hand 1: Looks good to me. Agree with your plan to call a raise. nobody back-doored that. show me!

Hand 2: On the flop, I'd probably raise or fold. (Fold being my favored choice, i dont like drawing to overs on a flushed board OOP) Call why? Yuck, you have 4 outs that won't flush the board, and they might not even help. but, if you have to continue on, go hard or pitch it!

On the turn, Ok, you found one of your four outs, nice CR. good thing he didn't three bet.

River, sure, c/c. But, i think i'd rather just chuck it on the flop.

[CardSharpCook]

on hand 1, try saving your aggression until the turn. you have less equity on the flop (i'm assuming he has an ace) than you do on the turn, and the bets are bigger on that street.

[LukeSLTS]

Hand 1: I like. Maybe you could have gotten an extra BB by waiting until the turn to raise SB instead of capping the flop, but you have a nice super aggro image to protect. Bet/call 1 on the river is a nice plan.

Hand 2: I think I would bet/fold this flop. You most likely have 4 outs or less. Pot odds do not justify this call.

[Proofrock]

With regards to hand 2, I figured that he would be raising for a free card at least one time in 8, in which case I would likely still be ahead and he'd check the turn, which is why I called. I wasn't planning on hitting any of my outs, but once I did I figured I was ahead enough to c/r the turn.

Is this foolish thinking? I had planned to c/f the turn if I didn't hit because I figured he would only bet with hands that beat me but would check behind with the weak draws, in which case I c/c the river.

[ssmallz]

[ QUOTE ]
With regards to hand 2, I figured that he would be raising for a free card at least one time in 8, in which case I would likely still be ahead and he'd check the turn, which is why I called. I wasn't planning on hitting any of my outs, but once I did I figured I was ahead enough to c/r the turn.

Is this foolish thinking? I had planned to c/f the turn if I didn't hit because I figured he would only bet with hands that beat me but would check behind with the weak draws, in which case I c/c the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes b/c even if he's raising for a free card he likely has 15 outs against you. If you're behind, you're drawing pretty thin and you can't like almost any turn card that falls off. Easy b/f on the flop

[Proofrock]

[ QUOTE ]
on hand 1, try saving your aggression until the turn. you have less equity on the flop (i'm assuming he has an ace) than you do on the turn, and the bets are bigger on that street.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking about this. I think raising the flop the first time around is a no-brainer, but if I just call SB's 3bet and LP calls I'll have gotten 1 BB less in from the Villains on the flop. On the turn, if I raise I figure it will often knock LP out, so I'll still only get 2 BBs from the villains on the turn (although I'm more likely to win the pot), just like I did by capping the flop and betting the turn.

It looks to me like I typically get less money in when I wait to the turn to raise. Now, if I was last to act I think I would prefer the line you suggested. Thoughts?