Is it The Complete Guide to Winning Poker by Morehead?????

[Edenfield99]

There was a discussion this week on the stud forum regarding pot-limit stud high-low and Phat Mack said he's sure one of the older poker books has a discussion on this, specifically 5th street play. Can anyone confirm it is the Morehead book or does anyone know which one he's refering to? I'm European so we're always playing strange games like this [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[jfk]

Without digging out my copy I'd be surprised if you found a lot of use out of Morehead for current game conditions. When Morehead was writing, there was no qualifier for stud hi/lo, so the strategy bent (if any) would be completely skewed.

Anyway, I believe Morehead refers to seven card stud as game "new in popularity" which may give you some idea as to the vintage of the advice.

[npc]

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There was a discussion this week on the stud forum regarding pot-limit stud high-low and Phat Mack said he's sure one of the older poker books has a discussion on this, specifically 5th street play.

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I don't recall such a discussion, but I haven't read every book.

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Can anyone confirm it is the Morehead book or does anyone know which one he's refering to?

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I don't know which book he's talking about, but I quickly looked through The Complete Guide to Winning Poker. It has a chapter on high/low poker that mentions 7 and 6 card stud with and without a declare, but I found no mention of playing the game pot-limit. Of course, I didn't spend a whole lot of time looking through the book, so there might have been something there I missed.

Hope this helps a little.

[Phat Mack]

I lost my library of old poker books in a marital disaster, so this is from my admittedly faulty memory...

I'm not sure there is much more than a paragraph or two about big-bet stud in Morehead, if that. In fact, I may have been thinking of a similar situation taken from a spread-limit example.

Morehead is very good with the declare game, although I wish there was more discussion of simultaneous, as opposed to sequential, declarations. Morehead is a must-read for declare players.

I think the only book I've read that discussed big-bet stud was written in the late 40s--early50s by an American who was stationed in England with the Army Air Corps in WWII. I've never seen this book discussed on the internet, but an oldtimer might wander by who remembers it. Can't remember much more about it...

It's possible Zadeh mentions some big-bet stud concepts, but I'm not sure that he mentions the hi-lo game. Could somebody with a copy check?

And finally, DS's chapter on stud hi-lo in Super System should be read by big-bet stud players, especially those parts where he discusses "escapes." It's an important concept with particular relevance to the hand that was originally discussed in the stud forum.

[npc]

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I think the only book I've read that discussed big-bet stud was written in the late 40s--early50s by an American who was stationed in England with the Army Air Corps in WWII. I've never seen this book discussed on the internet, but an oldtimer might wander by who remembers it. Can't remember much more about it...


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Offhand, I don't know this book. If you can remember the author's name or part of the title I might have a copy.

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It's possible Zadeh mentions some big-bet stud concepts, but I'm not sure that he mentions the hi-lo game. Could somebody with a copy check?

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You are correct. Zadeh mentions big-bet stud high-only (5, 6 and 7 card), although what we call "big-bet" he calls "high-limit". He doesn't mention "big-bet" strategies in stud high-low as far as I can tell from a quick glance.

As an aside, IMHO Zadeh's "Winning Poker Systems" is probably the best overall poker book written before Super/System. Not a "must read" these days, but it deserves more credit than it gets.

[maurile]

The Moorehead book is by far the best book I've seen for games commonly spread in goofy home games (follow the queen, etc.).

[jfk]

So I went ahead and dug out the Morehead. He has a 40 page chapter titled "High-Low Poker". This is mainly geared towards stud with a secondary portion given over to draw hands. Giving it the once over it does cover street by street play.

However, he doesn't appear to go into pot limit or other big bet type strategies.

As I remembered, the games of his examples are played without a qualifier. In one example he gives, he recommends folding rolled up kings.

As an added bonus, I also broke out a copy of A.D. Livingston's "Poker strategy and Winning Play". It is very similar to Morehead's title in approach though the information seems more technical and focused. Livingston has a specific table dealing with stud hi-lo probabilities.

He has a seven page chapter on hi-lo games, primarily stud. He also has a four and a half page overview on hi-lo stud specifically with some starting hand recommendations.

Like Morehead, Livingston's book predates 8 or better qualifying hands. Many of the games in both Morehead and Livingston discuss the strategy of declare games. If you've not played a delcare game, typically a player would use chips in their hand to declare whether they were betting high or low (or both ways) at the end of the betting. Livingston uses the rolled up kings example as well, reaching the same conclusion (to fold in a limit game).

To answer the OP, I saw no specific pot limit type information in Livingston's hi-lo pages, though there is a brief discussion of the mechanics of pot limit betting.

If one were curious to read the examples for themselves, Morehead is more thorough and uses more examples, but the Livingston chapters are probably more useful. If I remember correctly, Morehead even has some math errors that a simpleton like myself can pick out without doing the figuring.

A reader might even find interest in a new game they both discuss: "hold ME

If one were to pick up one of these books, they may be better served by Livingston. Your local public library may have either or both titles. For the poster looking for the older title, Livingston has a long list of other poker books tucked in before the his index.