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View Poll Results: Which is better?
(12) Dr. No 60 58.25%
(13) The Man with the Golden Gun 43 41.75%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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  #141  
Old 10-18-2007, 03:31 AM
AsydRayne AsydRayne is offline
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Default Re: Does professional poker contribute to society?

[ QUOTE ]

The distinction is that entertainment for the players would still be in poker without the pros, probably even more of it. OTOH, without athletes there is no sports for others to watch, without actors there are no movies for others to watch, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I still don't see the difference between poker pros and other pro sports. Without poker pros, there is no poker to watch on television. Sure the online player doesn't show up on TV, but there are lots of professional athletes that aren't in the top tier and never make it on television either.

I don't think poker pros contribute to society in terms of tangible goods, but I don't think pro athletes do either.

If we are defining entertainment as a contribution, which I think is debatable, then you have to include poker pros in with the rest of the professionals.
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  #142  
Old 10-18-2007, 03:58 AM
ginko ginko is offline
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Default Re: Does professional poker contribute to society?

You're looking at this the wrong way in my opinion. People don't work jobs to "give", it's just a byproduct of making money.

Sure, some people enjoy giving, but only because it gives them satisfaction, which is selfish in a way.
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  #143  
Old 10-18-2007, 04:14 AM
Bonified Bonified is offline
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Default Re: Does professional poker contribute to society?

[ QUOTE ]
theres no argument agaisnt it because theyre right.

so? ty for your money dumbasses now i go snort coke from a bunch of silicontits, have fun at your job sucker.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the right answer.
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  #144  
Old 10-18-2007, 04:33 AM
chucky chucky is offline
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Default Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"


Pete,

Where in this post do I say that I was in the ivy league, or that I would take any pride in it if I were? What is this chip on your shoulder? In life you have a choice: You can instantly attack any statement you hear, or you can try to understand and learn from your fellow human beings.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I've made this argument a lot and so maybe I skipped over a part. I thought it was clear that my paper is essentially a glorified poker concept. I actually wrote that line and deleted it in my last post. Therefore, (oops I have to be careful with you when I use the word "therefore") I think getting some of the poker concepts such as sample size, selection bias, the value of information, etc), out there is a good thing for academia as well as the mainstream. Therefore poker is helpful to academia and others.

Sorry if I was unclear. Also sorry that I am admittedly a little proud of my work right now and I shouldn't let my enthusiasm carry me away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Got some bad news for you, statistical concepts like sample size and selection bias predate the last 15-20 years that they have been used in poker. I am sure there are some poker concepts that should be introduced into academic work, but the examples you give just are not the ones.
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  #145  
Old 10-18-2007, 05:01 AM
TrueBritt TrueBritt is offline
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Default Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"

What do casinos contribute to society? In other words, why to people play blackjack? For entertainment. They know the odds are stacked against them, but they play anyway because they enjoy it. Professional poker players are like mini-casinos. People play against them for fun, and for the challenge of trying to beat them. So we provide the same service the casinos do, and that is something that people value.
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  #146  
Old 10-18-2007, 05:30 AM
Torello Torello is offline
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Default Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"

Couple things...

1) The taxes thing is a red herring, it has no bearing on the original question. I don't feel like explaining why.

2) Dima is right, being a winning (+EV) poker player is actually destructive, not just non-productive.

3) Day-trading is an excellent comparison. In general, investing is productive, but I think day-trading in a +EV way but without holding any of the securities overnight does equate to pro-poker as a non-productive profession.

If you think of the poker as entertainment production, with the basic transaction of rake-tip exchanged for entertainment, pro players are just a net-drag on the process, sort of like a transaction cost, or even a 'tax'. They essentially reduce the amount of entertainment received for a certain amount of rake paid by a non-pro.

You could say the same thing with investing and +EV day-trading. With the basic transaction of capital in exchange for returns, and the day-trading reducing the returns, thus being an unproductive drain on the process.

Good call Abba.
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  #147  
Old 10-18-2007, 05:57 AM
ericicecream ericicecream is offline
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Default Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"

We don't contribute, they're right. Simple as that. The question is, why does that piss them off so much?

If you want to contribute, the one thing you have is flexible time and you can use that to volunteer for something which does contribute.
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  #148  
Old 10-18-2007, 06:33 AM
borisp borisp is offline
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Default Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"

Everyone who has responded to this thread (myself included) should consider themselves maximally ignorant. If nothing else is true, it is most certain that posting here is unproductive.
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  #149  
Old 10-18-2007, 06:36 AM
Kevin Browne Kevin Browne is offline
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Default Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"

if you were in corporate America what would you be contributing there?? I use to work in audit for KPMG for 3 years, all i was doing was making my partners RICH!! at least now I can try to make myself some money.
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  #150  
Old 10-18-2007, 06:50 AM
PrimogenitoX PrimogenitoX is offline
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Default Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"

Do you believe in capitalism? If you believe in capitalism; you believe in the invisible hand theory, and if you believe in the invisible hand theory; then being a professional poker player is ultimately productive.
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