200NL AK 3b pot oop, river decision?

[easycall]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Betting the river is so much better than check/call

[/ QUOTE ]

elaborate please?

[/ QUOTE ]

he can't cause that's an ugly line.

[Isura]

Yeah... If you don't reraise light against button openers and then c-bet a dry flop, then its probably not good to bet this river.

[jk3a]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah... If you don't reraise light against button openers and then c-bet a dry flop, then its probably not good to bet this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive my ignorance, is this sarcasm? I've read it 15x and it doesn't make sense to me. Do you mean that the villain's calling range will be too strong if the hero's 3betting range is too narrow?

[holyfield5]

call this all day

[HiBaCHi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah... If you don't reraise light against button openers and then c-bet a dry flop, then its probably not good to bet this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive my ignorance, is this sarcasm? I've read it 15x and it doesn't make sense to me. Do you mean that the villain's calling range will be too strong if the hero's 3betting range is too narrow?

[/ QUOTE ]

basically. if hero never 3bets light or bluffs in 3bet pots a river bet is basically a bluff.

as for the hand. i don't like the assumptions that he can't check behind w/ a set. even though that hurts the case for calling i still call just b/c we don't have a strong enough read to do otherwise.

[DirteAA]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah... If you don't reraise light against button openers and then c-bet a dry flop, then its probably not good to bet this river.

[/ QUOTE ]
define 3-betting "light"

It changes for me though. Sometimes I'll run at 30/28 and others I'll run at 16/12. It partly depends on the cards and partly on the opponents. During a session earlier today I was running about 32/30 on one table and 15/14 on another over 150 hands.

Anyway, during the hand I was sure this was a clear call but results prompted me to ask.

I checked the river to induce the bluff and I got it, so I can't fold unless I have a spot on read. I just like to hear feedback and confirmation that I'm not a donk.

jk3a made an awesome post. That kinda [censored] takes some time and I think we can all learn a lot from posts like his.

[SANrider]

i cant believe there are so many people that think a fold is in order here...this should be a 3-4 post thread IMO...i agree with sharksandwich 100% NO WAY AM I FOLDING HERE...A turn bet is ok, but I think your line is perfect

[BearHustler]

Okay, I don't understand this thread at all. Maybe that's why I'm breaking even for a bunch of hands, I don't know.

First of all, this is a button open vs blind reraise hand, which make both ranges pretty damn wide.

Second, why would villain believe Hero has gotten any part of this flop? He could be calling with any of his midpairs, Jx hands, draws, or hopes and dreams of running some weird bluff line.

Turn: I'm torn between betting and checking here. We've got TPTK in a re-raised pot, so it's obvious that we can't just let go. Stack and pot size are such that we could give villain real attractive odds to call us down and still get our stack in. Or we could hope he tries to bluff us out or valuebet a worse hand, and get his stack that way. The problem is that right now, our hand looks pretty good. But any T or higher, and 7 or lower will make this board look very ugly.

River: as played, I can't imagine folding to this bet. This could be any two cards that called flop for whatever reason, checked turn because they got scared, and are trying to buy the pot on half price on the river.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll try not to be results oriented as I attempt to explain this. But in retrospect I feel my thought process should have been something similar to this.

I said in the OP that most of what villain had seen from me was very nitty; probably 16/12 range. So I think for him to call my 3-bet he has to hold a pretty strong hand. It isn't as though I gave him really good odds to call the 3-bet either (w/ hands like 44, 55). I made a larger than pot sized bet.

Since my image is so tight I think we can narrow down his calling range PF and on the flop. Don't you agree?

He isn't calling PF w/ AJ and I doubt AQ. I also doubt he is calling PF w/ anything less than 88, but I won't rule out other pps.

Then on the flop I don't think he can make the call w/ AK, 88-TT; given my image I don't think he makes that call. I honestly believe he needs 44, 55 (discounting the small pps), JJ or QQ to simply smooth call this flop. I know it sounds way too tight a range to give him but given my image don't you think we can narrow it down pretty well right there?

So I hit tptk on the turn and feel pretty good about it b/c now I am mostly worried about JJ. But he checks through the turn and bam the river Q. So honestly I doubt he is getting to the turn w/ a hand that doesn't have me beat on the river. Doesn't that make sense?

Now the odds are really good on the river but when we take into account my image and the actions + cards on each street do you really think he is going to bluff TT or less here? If I did c-bet w/ AK, AQ then I just got there and I think he would make a larger bet to push me off my hand.

So considering how tight he had seen me playing (unless he has datamined hands on me) I really think his PF and flop calling ranges go way down. Even if he called PF w/ any pp I really don't think he is calling the flop w/ anything other than 44, 55.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand ranges for villain are insanely tight. Who folds TT in this spot? Since he checked the turn he is going to have a monster or a hand with showdown value, not a hand that wants to bluff the river. So the play is to value-bet or check/fold here IMO. You guys are over-estimating how likely it is that players at small stakes will turn a made hand into a bluff in a big pot.

[DirteAA]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll try not to be results oriented as I attempt to explain this. But in retrospect I feel my thought process should have been something similar to this.

I said in the OP that most of what villain had seen from me was very nitty; probably 16/12 range. So I think for him to call my 3-bet he has to hold a pretty strong hand. It isn't as though I gave him really good odds to call the 3-bet either (w/ hands like 44, 55). I made a larger than pot sized bet.

Since my image is so tight I think we can narrow down his calling range PF and on the flop. Don't you agree?

He isn't calling PF w/ AJ and I doubt AQ. I also doubt he is calling PF w/ anything less than 88, but I won't rule out other pps.

Then on the flop I don't think he can make the call w/ AK, 88-TT; given my image I don't think he makes that call. I honestly believe he needs 44, 55 (discounting the small pps), JJ or QQ to simply smooth call this flop. I know it sounds way too tight a range to give him but given my image don't you think we can narrow it down pretty well right there?

So I hit tptk on the turn and feel pretty good about it b/c now I am mostly worried about JJ. But he checks through the turn and bam the river Q. So honestly I doubt he is getting to the turn w/ a hand that doesn't have me beat on the river. Doesn't that make sense?

Now the odds are really good on the river but when we take into account my image and the actions + cards on each street do you really think he is going to bluff TT or less here? If I did c-bet w/ AK, AQ then I just got there and I think he would make a larger bet to push me off my hand.

So considering how tight he had seen me playing (unless he has datamined hands on me) I really think his PF and flop calling ranges go way down. Even if he called PF w/ any pp I really don't think he is calling the flop w/ anything other than 44, 55.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand ranges for villain are insanely tight. Who folds TT in this spot? Since he checked the turn he is going to have a monster or a hand with showdown value, not a hand that wants to bluff the river. So the play is to value-bet or check/fold here IMO. You guys are over-estimating how likely it is that players at small stakes will turn a made hand into a bluff in a big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know they're insanely tight, but I only came up with that range b/c of my tight image.

Maybe I am completely over analyzing this hand lol. But it is in these marginal situations that I think there is many bb/100 to be won/lost.

However, as many have already stated this is not a fold by any means. I just feel that his range is narrowed b/c of how tight I had been playing but then again I could be overestimating the thought process of villain; even though he seems to be a solid player.

In a vacuum this is an easy call and would only require 3 or 4 responses to the OP. But I am trying to go a little deeper than the standard situation.

I still don't understand why you think a bet is better than a c/c. I really don't think he is calling the river w/ a worse hand.