AA opens and gets soooooo much action pre flop. Shall we shove???

Adrian20XX · #1 09-07-2007, 02:34 AM

Hi,

I have a question regarding these two hands.

In the first one I open for 4BBs being UTG (table has 7 players, player in early position raises to 10BBs, I re-raise to 20BBs, and guy re-re-raises to 40BBs, all pre flop.
So here I had a decision, and decided to flat call, as he only is ahead 1 in 10 times on the flop, and with his 20BBs raise he does not get his proper odds (and we also have re-drawing odds).
So I flat called and flop came King High, I lead with 20BB, guy re-raised to 50BB, and I pushed the rest of my buy in saying "I puke to your KKK", knowing I was behind but as I had played properly I had to pay. I forgot I was playing at PokerStars, so turn comes Ace.

Next hand is Blinds Battle, one player limps early, I raise on the CO with AA to 6BB, SB re-raises to 17BB, and I decided to re-raise him again to 35BB. So, he can't resist the temptation and calls, plus as I was in late position I could had a less strong hand.
So now flop comes 8 high, he checks, I bet 10BBs to our 70BB pot in order to look weak and he flat calls. Turn comes 8, he checks, I bet 18BBs to our 90BBs pot in order to continue to look weak so he shoves, and he re-raises me all for an extra 27BBs (I didn't reload on time here). I obviously call, and river comes blank.

So, what you would do in these cases, specially the first one? Would you have flat called pre-flop or shoved? And from the KK side, what had you done if you got shoved pre-flop after your re-raise to 40BBs?
No read of any player from any player.

TIA & Regards ...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($97.15)
CO ($81.75)
Button ($40)
SB ($111.60)
BB ($113.10)
Hero ($96.50)
MP1 ($88.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $10, 4 folds, Hero raises to $20, MP2 raises to $40, Hero calls $20.

Flop: ($81.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $20, MP2 raises to $50, Hero raises to $56.5, MP2 calls $6.50.

Turn: ($194.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($194.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $194.50

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($119.70)
Hero ($90.10)
Button ($97.40)
SB ($163.70)
BB ($100)
UTG ($136.80)
UTG+1 ($100.90)
MP1 ($107.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, SB raises to $17, 1 fold, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to $35, SB calls $18.

Flop: ($72) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB calls $10.

Turn: ($92) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $18, SB raises to $49, Hero calls $27.10 (All-In).

River: ($182.20) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $182.20

FishSticks · #2 09-07-2007, 02:40 AM

On hand 1 just go all in pre. People don't 4bet/fold really.

On hand 2 I'd make it more than 35, but I don't think it's a big deal. On the flop, he's probably got an overpair here and is probably calling a decent bet, so I wouldn't bother making this weird small bet. It's going to make you readable too when you make these little milkbets with your monsters.

thedustbustr · #3 09-07-2007, 02:44 AM

hand 1 wtf get the [censored] allin pre wtf???? wtf. no really, wtf. does not compute why you did not go all in preflop. wtf.

hnad 2 w/e, just shove the flop.

Adrian20XX · #4 09-07-2007, 02:49 AM

I like the point of being readable with the small raises, is something I didn't considered.
Hand one had KK, so it was a cooler for both of us on any situation.
But, hand two had JJ, so do you think he would had called the flop shove??? Plus, as I bet 10BBs, he needs to win 220BBs to had odds to call, that he certainly does not have, and he ended putting his whole stack, just one betting round later.
You still think shoving is the best choice for hand two?
Regards ...

Dire · #5 09-07-2007, 02:53 AM

Preflop is terrible both hands. Don't min 4-bet AA preflop after getting smallishly 3-bet. It just about always screams fish with aces and is a great way to ruin your long term profit with aces. I mean in the first hand you actually gave your opponent the proper odds to set mine you with KK in a 4-bet pot...

And this would be better suited in the full ring forum.

Tooty816 · #6 09-07-2007, 02:54 AM

Your play in both hands were very weak. Anyone who 5-bets MINIMUM preflop is not going to fold to a shove, so shove. If I were holding KK, I wouldn't have 5-bet min, so I would have definitely went all in preflop vs. an unknown and paid off AA.

In hand 1, you bet $20 into an $80 5-bet pot, giving your opponent 5-1 odds. Don't ever do it with such a huge pot. Seems to me like you're afraid of scaring him off the pot and you want to lure him in with some cheap action. The problem with that is you're giving drawing hands great odds to outdraw you, and you're not getting paid off by hands that would have called a much bigger bet.

Hand 2 on the flop, same idea. Don't be afraid to chase out action. You need to bet larger. Judging from these two hands I think you have a lot of work to do with your game.

Good luck.

dragonystic · #7 09-07-2007, 03:32 AM

is this thread for real?

Rainclouds · #8 09-07-2007, 09:29 AM

Come on, the guy is learning, be friendly.

Adrian: shoving the flop in hand 2 is really better than betting small and shoving turn. Yes, he WILL call a shove on the flop. However, if the turn is a Q,K, or A (quite a chance) he MIGHT NOT call a shove. Hence, shoving the flop is better.

gimmetheloot · #9 09-07-2007, 03:43 PM

A+ thrad delivers.

Dex · #10 09-07-2007, 05:34 PM

Hand 1: 4-bet push pf, problem solved
Hand 2: 4-bet push pf, problem solved