SSHE starting hands table question

[sparky3474]

I am confused about a statement in the "Tight games tables on page 80-81 of SSHE" in late position. "Same guidelines that you would use from early and middle position against a raise, except that if three players have entered the pot so far ( the raiser and at least two callers), also call with any pocket pair and QJs thru T9s"

If there are not three players we fold? Please be specific in stating the hands, I have written them in many combo's that just don't seem to make sense

[mwette]

I interpret it that way (i.e., fold QJs if only two people
have put money in so far).

I think the tables on pages 80-84 could be better.

[RobNottsUk]

You need at least 3 ppl in the pot to give you the odds to call (and encourage the blinds to see the flop). The sooted connectors like, multi-way pots because they'll often make nut str8's, and the flushes may be good to.

When a pot has many players in, hands like AKo are comparatively weakened as you generally need 2 pair or better to win the pot.

But you may have to play tigher, if you have a "Revenge Raiser" behind you (or a maniacal limp/re-raiser), who'll ensure a 3 or 4 bet pot.

As you gain more experience, you'll start figuring out how to use the "guidelines" to vary your play, rather than play by rote.

[sparky3474]

Ok, lets try Loose Table, Late position, pg 83, under the heading "if there is no raise", SSHE says "If at least four people have entered the pot in front of you". Is that for all the hands above the statement and all those hands regress one step ie. 88 is raise if 4 players and a call if 3 players in pot? and K8s drops from a call to a fold when you go from 4 players to 3 players?

[JMSlick]

I think you guys are analyzing this too much. These books give you advice and guidance, but what to do in specific situations depends upon circumstances. 88 is a good hand if nobody re-raises you, but if you are re-raised, beware. In a multi-way pot, hope for a set otherwise fold as there are so many overcards that can beat you. Kxs is worthwhile playing only if you can get in cheaply.

[OziBattler]

[ QUOTE ]
books give you advice and guidance, but what to do in specific situations depends upon circumstances

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo! Come over/back to Micro-Stakes-Limit, post and learn. as long as you arent thin-skinned and can handle experienced posters giving it to you straight then youll do fine.

honestly, ive read SSHE lots of times but most of that was spent on the POSTFLOP sections. Bottom line is that after a while you learn to play the situation and not 100% by the book. Oh and SSHE even says that on the 2+2 forums people spend too much time arguing about preflop decisions when postflop is money [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[RobNottsUk]

[ QUOTE ]
88 is a good hand if nobody re-raises you, but if you are re-raised, beware. In a multi-way pot, hope for a set otherwise fold as there are so many overcards that can beat you. Kxs is worthwhile playing only if you can get in cheaply.

[/ QUOTE ]
A pair of 8's is a good example to pick.

On a table, after many limpers, where blinds will call not re-raise, and 3-betting is unlikely a raise is profitable on value grounds, particularly if players are sensitive to pot odds post-flop. You want a set, and want ppl calling with hands that are drawing almost dead. Rather than seeing a cheap flop and then folding.

But on the net, the low stakes tables, I've played. Firstly, many players not pot odds sensitive, they called in unraised pots for 1 bet, when blinds bet. Secondly they are very likely to check to the raiser on the flop, so when you catch your set, you pick up fewer bets (the turn 'free' card rarely helps so is worth relatively little). Furthermore, poor players don't adjust their aggression levels in large pots, in fact the opposite may occur, where intimidated opponents try to see the river as cheap as possible. If an aggressive player is in early position they may check/raise to thin the field (when you want many callers). Finally maniacal tendencies to limp/re-raise with trash (especially against late position 'suspect' raises), cut down your implied odds and turn the hand Loose-Aggressive (favouring big cards).

A pair of 8's is a bad hand for 3 or 4 bet pots, you need implied odds (when you can't isolate a limper or blind defender), and raising pf cuts them down.

So despite what SSHE chart suggests, limping is probably more profitable in many games, and especially if there's a raise behind you, from someone who overvalues their own holdings, and tends to raise "damn limpers" on principal.

It doesn't matter that it's the "best hand" pre-flop, multi-way you're drawing to a set. You'll win a few less pots, but you'll be investing less at a marginal advantage, and getting money in when you have a big edge, later in the hand.