Why can't I beat LAGs???

[jedi]

Every time I run into a LAG, I can't beat him. I think it's just because I subconsciously lower my starting hand standards since his are crap as well, but he winds up hitting big hands against me, and I call down with my marginal hands because they're sometimes good. Of course, when they're not, I lose a bunch of chips.

I try reraising light, but that doesn't work either. Sometimes I don't get the isolation that I want, and other times, he'll call down (or bet into me) with 2nd pair.

Should I just tighten up and play so passively against LAGs that I turn my passiveness into a weapon against their aggressiveness???

[Humble Pie]

Before I jump all over your case and call you out, do you have any HH or data to support your claim?

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Before I jump all over your case and call you out, do you have any HH or data to support your claim?

[/ QUOTE ]

What kind of data do you have in mind?

I just finished a live session where I got my ass kicked by other players. I'm trying to figure out if it's bad play or bad luck (probably both). There were a few cases where I clearly needed to fold and I didn't, or at least slow down on the gas pedal, but I just refused to believe I was beaten especially since my opponents WOULD raise me with good, but not nuts type hands.

Example, I lost with a flopped set vs. a flopped straight. The board was coordinated enough that LAG could have bet/3-bet with flopped 2 pair. I didn't take my foot off the gas pedal until the turn when I got raised again. Still, I had outs to a boat and called it down UI.

Another example. Pre-flop Raise with a big pair. Flop comes, and my hand is still an overpair to the board. I bet, they call. Turn comes and it's an Ace, then opponent leads into me. Huh? Did they just make 2 pair? Well, no. As it turns out, they just hit one of their overcards on the turn. When I re-evaluate the hand, I think they had odds to call a single flop bet with their 2 overcards, but it pisses me off that I either don't believe them, or have this ego thing that doesn't want me to be "bluffable" in their eyes. The funny thing is that it probably won't matter to them in a live game. We're only playing 8/16 after all.

Actually the last group might not be LAG, just loose. I dunno.

So, I think I need to slow down, figure out which players DO bluff, or which "bluff" with hands like 2nd pair and basically just try to play solid, untricky poker. (even though I feel that makes me very exploitable).

[El_Hombre_Grande]

There are two ways to go, and with most LAGS you should mix the two up and observe to see how he reacts to either.
First, if he's loose, the answer is not to loosen up yourself. Its to punish his looseness with better hands. You don't want to play every hand with him, just the ones you have an edge. If he calls raises, raise a little more. Figure out what he'll call after when someone re-raises him.. In my experience, the way to beat a LAG is to let him do the betting, and then pull out a sledgehammer, or to come out swinging with him. Some LAGS will respond to aggression with more aggression. These you swing at when you have a hand. Others (the more intelligent ones) will put the breaks on the second a TAG shows interst in a hand. These must me slow played to death.

And don't worry that he's stealing little pots. He'll be putting it back in commerce the next hand. His weakness is his promiscuity.

[TheHip41]

step 1:

flop pairs


step 2:


call down

[JackAll]

[ QUOTE ]
Every time I run into a LAG, I can't beat him. I think it's just because I subconsciously lower my starting hand standards since his are crap as well, but he winds up hitting big hands against me, and I call down with my marginal hands because they're sometimes good. Of course, when they're not, I lose a bunch of chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is an easy solution. Tighten up. Play only premium hands and play them aggressively and just don't play any marginal hands like TKo. Loosening up is exactly how he makes his money from you.

[ QUOTE ]
Should I just tighten up and play so passively against LAGs that I turn my passiveness into a weapon against their aggressiveness???

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL this is beyond ridiculous.
The way to beat them is to play very tight so you often have a good hand, and then play your whole (narrow) range very aggressively.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Should I just tighten up and play so passively against LAGs that I turn my passiveness into a weapon against their aggressiveness???

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL this is beyond ridiculous.
The way to beat them is to play very tight so you often have a good hand, and then play your whole (narrow) range very aggressively.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's what I have been doing. Maybe I just hit the wrong side of variance this time around [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[btmagnetw]

[ QUOTE ]
There is an easy solution. Tighten up. Play only premium hands and play them aggressively and just don't play any marginal hands like TKo. Loosening up is exactly how he makes his money from you.

[/ QUOTE ]i know this is the typical response, but how are you suppoesd to make money off a non-idiotic LAG by becoming a nit? will the LAG have trouble seeing through your 12/7 style of play?

[dwf76]

I'm having trouble with the same type of player, anyone know of any useful links or any other info.

[_TKO_]

I think it's more than a strategy adjustment. It may come down to a LAG's effect on your state of emotion. A LAG is a bully. His persistent aggression gets inside of you and hinders your ability to reason. The mere presence of a LAG at your table means that you are no longer the dominant force. You cannot project the image of an unstoppable foe; the LAG is stealing that opportunity from you, making you feel inferior.

Just remember that all a LAG really has on you is aggression. First fight that aggression with passivity, even with monster hands. Aggression from a LAG usually means nothing. Against this kind of player, use your medium strength and big hands as a tool to take him to showdown. They aren't used to getting there.