2/4 - I see monsters

[gobbledygeek]

2/4 B&M, 10 players, loose & passive

Villain doesn't bluff, is typical passive player but isn't afraid to put lottsa bets in when he thinks he's ahead.

Preflop (10 players): Hero is UTG with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises, UTG+1 coldcalls, Villain coldcalls, Button coldcalls, BB calls

Flop (5 players, 10 SB): K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
check to Hero who bets, fold, Villain 2bets, folded to Hero who 3bets, Villain 4bets, Hero puts money in the pot to 5bet but is then told by dealer that 4bet cap applies since round didn't begin heads-up

Turn (2 players, 9 BB): 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, Villain calls

River (2 players, 11 BB): 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, Villain raises, Hero wimps out and calls.

I failed poker 101 here. My thinking at the time is with aggressive flop play this villain had a set of 9's or a set of 8's, therefore it was 50/50 his quads came in and thus no point in 3betting/calling. Point out the error in my thought process.

GcluelessnoobwhoisashamedtomakemistakeslikethisG

[Lethe]

Er, is there a serious question here GG?

You have the nut FH. The only hand that beats you is 99. I'm raising until the cows come home. He has 98 or K9 like, all the time.

[mikeca]

Well, every once in a long while the villain will have quads here, on the flop he probably has two pair or maybe AK suited in spades. Would he raise preflop with AK?

On the river, it looks me that he flopped two pair (k9 or 98) or a set (99 or 88) and has now filled up. You are ahead of all of those except 99. He probably has you on AK. You are winning this pot 90% of the time. I would go at least 2 or 3 more bets.

[pjf1969]

He could have 89 for a flopped two pair if in his pre flop coldcall range. He also closed the action on the flop, not disuaded by your 3-beat dispite the pfr in a ten handed game, you may be good-I think you did the right thing just call and see.

[One Outer]

Good God, man. You don't need any input to know what you did.

[gobbledygeek]

Ya, you guys nailed it, I only posted this for the benefit of other noobs. My horrendous mistake was overlooking that Villain could easily play K9 or 98 the same way on the flop, therefore it wasn't 50/50 on the river that he had quads.

Against typical live 2/4 player, how many bets would you usually do? Does anyone 5bet this cuz now I'm thinking that might be entering spewy territory?

[One Outer]

[ QUOTE ]
Ya, you guys nailed it, I only posted this for the benefit of other noobs. My horrendous mistake was overlooking that Villain could easily play K9 or 98 the same way on the flop, therefore it wasn't 50/50 on the river that he had quads.

Against typical live 2/4 player, how many bets would you usually do? Does anyone 5bet this cuz now I'm thinking that might be entering spewy territory?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just call a four bet. I'd have to have a read that he was a special kind of retarded to fivetown.

[jesse8888]

[ QUOTE ]

I just call a four bet. I'd have to have a read that he was a special kind of retarded to fivetown.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be amazing....

[mwette]

I look at this way. If you think he has less than 50%
chance to have you beat, then you should bet, because
your bet is EV+.

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
My horrendous mistake was overlooking that Villain could easily play K9 or 98 the same way on the flop, therefore it wasn't 50/50 on the river that he had quads.

Against typical live 2/4 player, how many bets would you usually do? Does anyone 5bet this cuz now I'm thinking that might be entering spewy territory?

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, it's NOT 50/50 that he just made quads. Even if you assume he had 99 or 88 on the flop, then the river 98 just tilted the scales in favor of 88 (assuming he'd play both hands the same way.) On the river, there are 3 ways he could have 88, and only 1 way he could have 99, so it's basically 75/25 that he has 88, not 50/50.

On the river, I'm going at least 5 bets, possibly calling his 6th. Depends on what I can figure out he thinks I have. Can he put me on AA? How about AK? How about 88 or 99? How about K9? The smaller the range you think he thinks you have, then more quickly you can slow down. But just calling 1 raise? Never that quick.