Army, AF, Navy & Marine Corps Times Editorial: Rumsfeld must go!

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]

But since the large majority of people who are calling for Rumsfeld to step down presumably do want *someone* to replace him, it seem reasonable to ask who they think would be better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reason has no place with the majority. Remember the battle cry of all politicians: "ANYONE BUT [other guy]!"

[wacki]

I love the picture attached to the article. Hang your head in shame Rumsfeld! IN SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Next stop, 4 year old gives birth to a alien baby.

(just making fun of the picture not the articles content)

[wacki]

ok reading this article:

Military leaders generally toed the line, although a few retired generals eventually spoke out from the safety of the sidelines, inciting criticism equally from anti-war types, who thought they should have spoken out while still in uniform, and pro-war foes, who thought the generals should have kept their critiques behind closed doors.

Now, however, a new chorus of criticism is beginning to resonate. Active-duty military leaders are starting to voice misgivings about the war's planning, execution and dimming prospects for success.

OK please provide some names!

Army Gen. John Abizaid, chief of U.S. Central Command, told a Senate Armed Services Committee in September: "I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it ... and that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move towards civil war."

Yay a name! But this quote doesn't criticize Rumsfeld. It only says there is lots of violence and we need to mobilize to stop it. Those are 2 entirely different things.

Meanwhile, colonels and generals have asked their bosses for more troops. Service chiefs have asked for more money.

Can we have some names?

oop...... no names. :-(

But when the nation’s current military leaders start to break publicly with their defense secretary, then it is clear that he is losing control of the institution he ostensibly leads.

from the comments:
http://www.militarycity.com/discussi...read.php?t=549
"Losing control"? I think not. America is one of the very few nations where a military leader can disagree with political policy and not have his head handed to him. I suggest that the writer go back to the late 1970's and see what the generals then thought publicly of Jimmy Carter. Or what they thought publicly of LBJ, and Robert McNamara. Or even further back, to Truman, and FDR.

There is ample historical precedent of generals openly disagreeing with official policy. In spite of that, they did their jobs anyway. Which is what the generals today are doing. Their jobs.

With as much fake news and spin I see in the papers today how the hell am I supposed to believe this if they won't cite their sources?

Gotta love the safety of "anonymity". [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Doing a search, Army, AF, Navy & Marine Corps Times are a subsidiary of the Garrett group and have called for Rumsfeld's resignation for years.

While the facts of this article may be correct, the nature of this article does not carry much weight with me. A grand total of one military leader was quoted in this editorial and he did not call for Secretray Rumsfeld to be fired. Is this all you've got?

(ok NOW I'm making fun of the articles content)

[bisonbison]

Reason has no place with the majority. Remember the battle cry of all politicians: "ANYONE BUT [other guy]!"

This is so lazy. I mean, I'm glad you guys can once again carry on a private AC conversation in a thread that has nothing to do with AC, but it's not like the authors of these articles will have a hand in selecting Rummy's replacement.

When people have called on Rummy to resign, it's because his gross incompetence is so clearly above and beyond the call of duty. There are systems to produce a replacement, and in the face of an overwhelming failure in the execution of his duty either in the planning of the war or in facing up to the commander and chief, we don't need a replacement in mind. We just need him gone.

[Grey]

More piling on:

http://politicalwire.com/archives/20...last_bush.html

Vanity Fair: "As Iraq slips further into chaos, the war's neoconservative boosters have turned sharply on the Bush administration, charging that their grand designs have been undermined by White House incompetence. In a series of exclusive interviews, Richard Perle, Kenneth Adelman, David Frum, and others play the blame game with shocking frankness. Target No. 1: the president himself."

[pvn]

[ QUOTE ]
When people have called on government to be dissolved, it's because the gross incompetence, immorality, and harm caused is so clear. We don't need a replacement in mind. We just need it gone.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Grey]

Why do you say the same exact thing in every thread on this forum?

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And replace him with...?

You can't object to the status quo without providing an alternative that will provably work better.

Right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell that to the AC crowd.

Oooops, you are one of them!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep reading. So do you think this is a valid argument or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

But it is funny that you would suggest it.

[pvn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And replace him with...?

You can't object to the status quo without providing an alternative that will provably work better.

Right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell that to the AC crowd.

Oooops, you are one of them!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep reading. So do you think this is a valid argument or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

But it is funny that you would suggest it.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's funny? It's invalid, I pointed out that it's invalid.

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And replace him with...?

You can't object to the status quo without providing an alternative that will provably work better.

Right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell that to the AC crowd.

Oooops, you are one of them!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep reading. So do you think this is a valid argument or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

But it is funny that you would suggest it.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's funny? It's invalid, I pointed out that it's invalid.

[/ QUOTE ]

True.

You offered an invalid argument (again!) and then pointed out that it was invalid (a first!).

I am cool with that. We can get back to the main thread now, I suppose.