Question in $225 Stars Turbo hand.

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]

Well honestly I think the limp is more of a big deal than people are saying. I think its definitely a bad limp, but not hideous. However anyone who makes this limp in a sit and go almost surely has some problems in their game. However taken on it's own, it's not terrible or anything like that, just clearly not good, or -EV you may call it. Thats just my opinion.

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agreed

[MadScientist]

I disagree that an unsuited connector that you only play for two pair or better is going to lose you money here. He limped after a limper. If he was open limping, I would think it a poor idea. His position is marginal and if he was on the button, I do think it is a good play.
Also, I like people to be limping. When I have a big hand and make a ridiculously large raise, someone or two of them will call. I will get paid off. To encourage people to limp, I will limp along with them and play some poker. I feel like my results are better if I give some action. It is hard to quantify this effect though.

By the way, I am a substantial winner level 1 and 2 with JTo from PT which almost certainly means I am making money with it.

Having said all of this, I can't make any argument why someone who would fold it should call with it, so it can't be a great play or even a good one. However, you can make money playing hands like this and I like money.

BTW, Travesty, I've played with you a good bit. Don't take this the wrong way, but I can usually put you on a hand very easily. You may want to change that. However, if you like your earn as is, you probably don't want to change things up.

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree that an unsuited connector that you only play for two pair or better is going to lose you money here. He limped after a limper. If he was open limping, I would think it a poor idea. His position is marginal and if he was on the button, I do think it is a good play.
Also, I like people to be limping. When I have a big hand and make a ridiculously large raise, someone or two of them will call. I will get paid off. To encourage people to limp, I will limp along with them and play some poker. I feel like my results are better if I give some action. It is hard to quantify this effect though.

By the way, I am a substantial winner level 1 and 2 with JTo from PT which almost certainly means I am making money with it.

Having said all of this, I can't make any argument why someone who would fold it should call with it, so it can't be a great play or even a good one. However, you can make money playing hands like this and I like money.

BTW, Travesty, I've played with you a good bit. Don't take this the wrong way, but I can usually put you on a hand very easily. You may want to change that. However, if you like your earn as is, you probably don't want to change things up.

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lol

[psyduck]

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Well honestly I think the limp is more of a big deal than people are saying. I think its definitely a bad limp, but not hideous. However anyone who makes this limp in a sit and go almost surely has some problems in their game. However taken on it's own, it's not terrible or anything like that, just clearly not good, or -EV you may call it. Thats just my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah exactly. I mean, at most, this limp costs you T30 chips (unless your postflop play is super hideous). However, the fact that OP makes this play and does not even CONSIDER the fact that it could be wrong indicates that he has bigger leaks in his game. Thus I ask how someone like that could be a winner at the $555s.

[DCJ311]

I'd never in my life limp JTo preflop in EP. Maaybe JTs, KQs occasionally just to mix up my game, but in $555s and $225s the players just aren't generally bad enough to pay off their stack with like AJ on JT2 boards.

Another fundamental principle people don't really think about (even in large buyin sngs!) is that JT is really only a good hand for cracking AA-QQ, & maybe AK. And against AK you have to really catch a miracle flop to be a huge favorite vs. it.

The serious problem is that if one of your opponents just happens to act after you with one of these hands, they're obviously going to raise you a large amount. Do you really want to limp JTo then call 120-200 more with it? If so you have huge leaks.

It doesn't do that well against worse hands that limp behind you, because when you flop 2 pair or a straight, you're generally not going to get any action because what hand will really give you enough action on JTx a great % of the time to warrant the PF call?

Also, if the flop comes J32, are you really planning on check-folding this hand a great % of the time? If so, that's probably a leak too. Anyways there's obviously a lot of things wrong with the JTo limp that I don't think people really pay attention to.

[Melchiades]

I think you make a very good point DCJ311. JT might sometimes be able to extract from a bigger pair. But doesn't really get paid off often enough against other hands that people limp. Obviously a set will pay you off when you hold a straight and stuff like that, but that doesn't happen often enough.

Now I don't play 555's, so for what I know people might be ready to call of their stack with AJ/KJ/QJ on a JTx flop for what I know. But wouldn't really think so.

[degenaholic]

bump

[billxo1b]

lol@psyduck

[AMT]

[ QUOTE ]
bump

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i knew someone would make a retarded bump of an old rainkhan sng hand. who owes me money?

[typically]

Somewhat prophetic thread really... in terms of his STTP results. JTo plays better at WSOP ME I bet [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]