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#151
11-10-2007, 03:07 PM
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Re: Who is the third best quarterback in the NFL?
[ QUOTE ]
i agree that palmer > brees, but palmer isn't "undebateably better." he is definitely more talented, but he has not been been good enough for you to say that he is undeniably better-- wins have to count for something at some point. [/ QUOTE ] what's brees better at? besides winning 
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#152
11-10-2007, 03:50 PM
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Re: Who is the third best quarterback in the NFL?
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Bingo, Obv not otherwise they'd be far better than TO. I was trying to point out that he depresses his QBs completion percentage a significant amount by being the #1 WR instead of another. TDs/YPC/etc I have not considered. [/ QUOTE ] I think YPC would increase as TO gets a lot of yards after the catch. TDs may increase as well because of his ability to get open. I would think a QB would prefer having TO over a good possession receiver.
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#153
11-10-2007, 05:39 PM
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Re: Who is the third best quarterback in the NFL?
Enrique,
Assume that there was a flawless system to measure a players projected value. 0 is the worst 100 is the best. If you take the 30th pick overall they will usually have a very similar value. However the 1st overall pick has a lot of variance because there can be classes without one real star. Vick coming out of college would have been the 1st overall pick in almost any class the same cannot be said for Eli, JaMarcus, Carr, etc. Vick was one of the most hyped prospects in sports history.
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#154
11-10-2007, 11:13 PM
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Re: Who is the third best quarterback in the NFL?
[ QUOTE ]
Enrique, Assume that there was a flawless system to measure a players projected value. 0 is the worst 100 is the best. If you take the 30th pick overall they will usually have a very similar value. However the 1st overall pick has a lot of variance because there can be classes without one real star. Vick coming out of college would have been the 1st overall pick in almost any class the same cannot be said for Eli, JaMarcus, Carr, etc. Vick was one of the most hyped prospects in sports history. [/ QUOTE ] Good point, but, I what I was trying to say is that people treat first picks as the savior almost all the time. It seemed people thought the Giants would be better with Eli, Houston would change with Carr, etc. I do agree that Vick was more hyped than these players, but these players were also very hyped and none of them are successful, whereas Vick was successful (taking the Falcons to the playoffs and then beating GB at Lambeau). He was overhyped, but he is not the most overrated player of all time.
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#155
11-10-2007, 11:19 PM
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Re: Who is the third best quarterback in the NFL?
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It seemed people thought the Giants would be better with Eli [/ QUOTE ] Um, they are.
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#156
11-10-2007, 11:39 PM
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Re: Who is the third best quarterback in the NFL?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It seemed people thought the Giants would be better with Eli [/ QUOTE ] Um, they are. [/ QUOTE ] Okay, that was supposed to be taken on the context of the discussion. Someone said that Vick was overrated because he didn't make Atlanta a franchise. Eli Manning has not made the Giants a franchise or a consistent winning team (although I guess the Tiki Barber thing affected last year quite a bit). I guess Eli is good enough right now, that he is not an example of an overrated first pick, but Vick also lead a competitive Falcons team that was better than before he was there. (In summary, the Manning comment was with respect to the original Vick discussion).
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#157
11-10-2007, 11:44 PM
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Re: Who is the third best quarterback in the NFL?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Isn't the Steelers record when he throws over 30 or 35 times in a game atrocious? I forget the exact stat, but it shows that the Steelers do not have success when they make Big Ben win games for them. Top 3 QB's win games, not manage them. [/ QUOTE ] reg season 30attempts, 35attempts 07 1-2, 0-1 06 1-7, 1-4 05 1-1, 0-1 04 high was 28attempts 1-0 in playoffs 30att [/ QUOTE ] This seems to be pretty good proof of what an earlier poster said, it isnt that they lose when they let Big Ben go wild, its that they only need to throw a bunch when they are getting stomped. Thats why he had 8 games in '06 like that, probably not that he developed some kind of Rex Grossman disease and started audibling out of runs 20 times a game to disastrous results.
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#158
11-11-2007, 12:50 AM
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Re: Who is the third best quarterback in the NFL?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Isn't the Steelers record when he throws over 30 or 35 times in a game atrocious? I forget the exact stat, but it shows that the Steelers do not have success when they make Big Ben win games for them. Top 3 QB's win games, not manage them. [/ QUOTE ] reg season 30attempts, 35attempts 07 1-2, 0-1 06 1-7, 1-4 05 1-1, 0-1 04 high was 28attempts 1-0 in playoffs 30att [/ QUOTE ] This seems to be pretty good proof of what an earlier poster said, it isnt that they lose when they let Big Ben go wild, its that they only need to throw a bunch when they are getting stomped. Thats why he had 8 games in '06 like that, probably not that he developed some kind of Rex Grossman disease and started audibling out of runs 20 times a game to disastrous results. [/ QUOTE ] Yep, this stat on Ben is bogus beciase it mixes cause and effect. Plus, the flip side is a good runningteam like Pitt will be pounding the ball in the 3rd/4th quarter when they are winning.
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