HULA Week 3 - Bicyclekick v Gehrig

[bbbushu]

Bicyclekick and Gehrig,

I felt like this was a pretty well-played match and I found a few hands especially interesting. Any feedback would be appreciated. Other MHSHers should also chime in because you’re all smart, blah blah blah.


***7:45***

Gehrig is BT with XY

Preflop:
Gehrig raises, BK calls

(4 sb)

Flop:
9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BK checks, Gehrig bets, BK calls

(3 bets)

Turn:
3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BK checks, Gehrig checks

(3 bets)

River:
5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BK checks, Gehrig bets


Gehrig – you claimed to have the nut low (24o) – if so, why check-behind on this turn (because we have a straight draw, I assume) because it’s a decently bluffable card. I also usually find a reason to fire the second barrel because if I check behind, I never know what to do to win the pot (bluff if checked to or bluff-raise) or whether to just give up.


***10:10***

BK is BT with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Gehrig is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Preflop:
BK raises, Gehrig three-bets, BK calls

(6 sb)

Flop:
4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Gehrig bets, BK calls

(4 bets)

Turn:
T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Gehrig bets, BK raises, Gehrig calls

(8 bets)

River:
6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Gehrig checks, BK bets, Gehrig calls

(10 bets)


Gehrig – turn seems like a pretty standard three-bet, planning to punish hands like pair + draw. Any reason you just called?

BK – why did you wait until the turn to raise? Our hand is pretty vulnerable (although we were lucky that the least-scary scare card came on the turn – aside from the T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I guess [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) and although I know that Gehrig is aggressive enough to bet the turn, I feel like we should get value on the flop out of TPGK. The board is very dry, so do you wait because you know that, aside from a higher pair, there are no real draws to fear?


***11:15***

Gehrig is BT with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Preflop:
Gehrig raises, BK calls

(4 sb)

Flop:
7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BK checks, Gehrig bets, BK raises, Gehrig calls

(4 bets)

Turn:
5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BK bets, Gehrig calls


Gehrig – no raise? I figured when you just called on the flop, you would raise pretty much any turn card. I think the turn is a good card to free-showdown raise (at least) and put pressure on any cheesy hands BK check/raised the dry board with. Are you just waiting for the board to brick out before putting a raise in or are you actually unsure about the strength of your hand?


18:50

BK is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Preflop:
Gehrig raises, BK calls

(4 sb)

Flop:
9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BK checks, Gehrig bets, BK raises, Gehrig calls

(4 bets)

Turn:
J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BK bets, Gehrig raises, BK calls

(8 bets)

River:
K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BK checks, Gehrig bets, BK calls

(10 bets)


BK – the flop check/raise is meh but I’m mainly curious about the turn.

Initially your call-down appalled me but I guess I can somewhat rationalize it: The flop has draws but since it’s paired our hand isn’t in that bad of shape. The turn completes all the draws but Gehrig may also semi-bluff raise with any Q, T, or [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and if so, the river is a blank for him.

I think it looks bad to me because I haven’t really seen Gehrig semi-bluff raise the turn yet (and in fact, he’s played pretty contained thus far and I would be taking any aggression on his part fairly seriously by now) and the turn card is probably the worst card possible because it hits everything.

Did you have any other thoughts on this/ is my thought process similar to yours, here?


***20:25***

BK is BT with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop:
BK raises, Gehrig calls

(4 sb)

Flop:
2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Gehrig checks, BK bets, Gehrig raises, BK calls

(4 bets)

Turn:
A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Gehrig bets, BK calls

(6 bets)

River:
K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Gehrig checks, BK bets

(7 bets when you bet)


BK – I’m kinda confused about the whole hand starting on the flop. The board is very dry and I assume you’re calling the check/raise because you know Gehrig knows that (and is just making a move). The turn is a blank, the river is a blank (probably, I doubt we get check/raised that often on this flop with Kx) and his check on the end somewhat confirms our hypothesis that he was bluffing.

You bet? To make Queen-high and better Jack-highs fold, I guess, because no pair is folding, here. I don’t think we’re getting check/raised very often, fwiw, but I’m not sure I see the advantages of betting to checking-behind, here.

Lastly, after you call on the turn, what is your river plan? The mouse seemed to be hovering towards raise – were you calling the flop to bluff the turn (but couldn’t because of the Ace) and then calling the turn to bluff the river? Or was your plan to just stick to your read and see show-down?

[LOL I wrote this up before seeing Gehrig’s chat about almost check/raising but not having any balls. Might be a sweet place to check/raise with the nut-low because I don’t know what BK could have, here (maybe just 8x) and I think he’ll fold a lot. Gehrig, if you had Jack or Queen-high, what do you think about playing the hand this way and then check/calling the river?]


20:50

Gehrig is BT with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Preflop:
Gehrig raises, BK calls

(4 sb)

Flop:
6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BK checks, Gehrig bets, BK raises, Gehrig calls

(4 bets)

Turn:
3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BK bets, Gehrig calls

(6 bets)

River:
J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BK bets, Gehrig calls

(8 bets)


Gehrig – I like the river call, is that bad?


***25:20***

Gehrig is BT with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Preflop:
Gehrig raises, BK three-bets, Gehrig four-bets, BK five-bets, Gehrig calls

(10 sb)

Flop:
K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BK bets, Gehrig calls

(6 bets)

Turn:
5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BK bets, Gehrig calls

(8 bets)

River:
2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BK bets, Gehrig calls

(10 bets)


Gehrig – the pot is huge because of pre-flop. The flop is pretty awful because now we are only okay if BK will five-bet pre-flop with AT and 99. All of the clubs are definitely unwelcome but meh. Is it possible to fold the river, in this hand, despite the size of the pot?


34:35

Gehrig is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop:
BK raises, Gehrig calls

(4 sb)

Flop:
A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Gehrig checks, BK bets, Gehrig raises, BK three-bets, Gehrig calls

(5 bets)

Turn:
8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Gehrig checks, BK bets, Gehrig calls

(7 bets)

River:
J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Gehrig checks, BK bets, Gehrig calls

(9 bets)


Gehrig – do you make this calldown just because of all the action you gave on the flop? A lot of thought goes in on these ace-rag-rag flops (because they appear so damn bluffable) but I guess you either (a) put BK on a heart draw or (b) a gutshot with an overcard or (c) figured that he knew you would bluff at a flop like this so he re-bluffed and fired all three. Anything important that brief analysis misses?


36:45

BK is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Preflop:
Gehrig raises, BK calls

(4 sb)

Flop:
A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BK checks, Gehrig bets, BK raises

(4 bets)

Turn:
A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BK checks …


BK, this makes sense to me in that we don’t hafta pay an extra bet to show down our weak pair because Gehrig, being less likely to take our flop play seriously now, is more likely to bluff-raise or semi-bluff raise the turn but letting him do this might not be so bad. What are your thoughts to bet/calling this turn and then value-betting any river? If we get raised there, we can safely fold. That sort of builds the pot just to fold a lot of the time, though, so maybe your line makes more sense.

Anyhow, is this why you checked the turn? …


38:50

BK is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop:
Gehrig raises, BK calls

(4 sb)

Flop:
T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BK checks, Gehrig bets, BK raises, Gehrig calls

(4 bets)

Turn:
T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BK bets, Gehrig calls

(6 bets)

River:
8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BK bets, Gehrig calls

(8 bets)


… and, if so, why did you bet, here?


*****

Take your time responding, as always, I’m just happy to get any feedback over well-protected HU knowledge [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

bbbushu

[gehrig]

#1 if he peeled flop with a hand hes not showing down its prob bc he had a backdoor club draw im not winning the pot v much there but i can still win on riv

#2 im not way ahead

#3 im not way ahead

Q4o calldown lol this is bad

[bicyclekick]

the K9 hand where the flop came 942 I waited til the turn for balance. The whole vulnerable thing is just not that important in my mind. It's not like he's folding AQ or something now. If i always raise the flop when I make 'vulnerable' pairs it's just far easier for him to barrel the turn/river. I call there a lot actually cause I call there a lot with my weak hands too as opposed to raising them a good percentage of the time.

The A7 hand where I c/r the K99 flop was just one of those hands where I fealt the flow dictated a call down. I don't have the video in front of me and I don't even remember if I won that hand, but I definetely wouldn't be suprised if I did. If he had a huge hand and I lost that could be too, it's all just ranges and I'm a fan of calling a lot with aces in the big blind and c/ring a lot of flops with them as I think it makes it tougher to play against as it expands my range on a lot of boards enough. It's usually basically a semi-bluff where I may or may not have the best hand but the times I do have the best hand I want to win the pot both right there or at a showdown. The downside to this is you bloat the pot and then get raised like that and have a semi-mediocre showdownable hand and you have to play poker a little bit more which is fine to me. In HU I don't mind spewing a few bets here and there and I think not doing so to a certain extent makes a person a lot easier to play against.

The J5 hand was just flow. My cards were irrelevent until the river. On the river, yes...I bet to fold out other jack highs/mb queen highs. You're right, I bet 95% of the time a pair isn't folding, but every once in awhile it would. Since you watched our interactions up to this, me calling that flop and turn means I have a pair or a good king high like every time at least and I think he feels that If I was going to bluff him I'd raise the turn. That's why I called. It's just fealt like with the dynamic it would be believable. I wasn't going to call the river if he bet, i would have raised. Sometimes there I'd look foolish but I'm over it.

The 43dd hand I'm trying to think back exactly but I think I have the reasoning. I think he'd been folding a lot to preasure on those types of boards and I'd been having aces there a lot and for whatever reason I decided there was a decent chance I was in trouble but given I still have a decent hand and a gutshot I'll check call and play poker on the river...which would be calling almost every time but sometimes folding. Another one of those flow things that I can't really explain. Maybe it's better to bet though, I'm not really sure/overly emotional about it one way or the other.

Q6...not sure what you mean by if so, why did you bet here because that leads me to believe I didn't bet, which I think would be stupid. I have a damn good hand on the river and meh maybe he doesn't have any pairs and would bluff at it but I think i get called by worse hands more often than get him to bluff. He'd been calling me pretty lightly sometimes so valueeee.

[bbbushu]

hey guys,

i appreciate it.

bbbushu