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#11
10-24-2007, 01:20 PM
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Re: big drop oop - standard or spewage?
[ QUOTE ]
we're leading the turn b/c we have some fe on the double barrel, where as we have little on a c/r. [/ QUOTE ] Are you making this statement specifically in regards to this villain, or generally? If it is a general statement, I'm not really seeing how this is true - if villain calls he is getting about 2.3:1... these odds are not good at all, I feel that there is good FE against a lot of players here. Am I completely misinterpreting this? 
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#12
10-24-2007, 01:29 PM
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Re: big drop oop - standard or spewage?
The turn CR doesn't increase your FE much in comparison to the risk. Furthermore, villain looks like a bad player which means A) he won't drop a marginal hand often on the turn, B) he will pay off on the river if you hit, C) he may have made a strong hand on the flop and not bothered to raise (good players do this from time to time to so I ain't hating), D) He is less likely to raise your Turn bet with a marginal holding - I just don't see any real argument to take on the added financial risk that a check/raise has over a turn lead.
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#13
10-24-2007, 01:33 PM
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Re: big drop oop - standard or spewage?
[ QUOTE ]
The turn CR doesn't increase your FE much in comparison to the risk. Furthermore, villain looks like a bad player which means A) he won't drop a marginal hand often on the turn, B) he will pay off on the river if you hit, C) he may have made a strong hand on the flop and not bothered to raise (good players do this from time to time to so I ain't hating), D) He is less likely to raise your Turn bet with a marginal holding - I just don't see any real argument to take on the added financial risk that a check/raise has over a turn lead. [/ QUOTE ] That makes a lot of sense. Thanks. What about if you are in position, and villain donk bets you after he c/c your flop cbet? Is pushing in this situation just as spewy?
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#14
10-24-2007, 01:36 PM
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Re: big drop oop - standard or spewage?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] we're leading the turn b/c we have some fe on the double barrel, where as we have little on a c/r. [/ QUOTE ] Are you making this statement specifically in regards to this villain, or generally? If it is a general statement, I'm not really seeing how this is true - if villain calls he is getting about 2.3:1... these odds are not good at all, I feel that there is good FE against a lot of players here. Am I completely misinterpreting this? [/ QUOTE ] i'm saying that in this particular scenario, if he bets the turn when checked to he is not usually folding
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#15
10-24-2007, 01:59 PM
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Re: big drop oop - standard or spewage?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The turn CR doesn't increase your FE much in comparison to the risk. Furthermore, villain looks like a bad player which means A) he won't drop a marginal hand often on the turn, B) he will pay off on the river if you hit, C) he may have made a strong hand on the flop and not bothered to raise (good players do this from time to time to so I ain't hating), D) He is less likely to raise your Turn bet with a marginal holding - I just don't see any real argument to take on the added financial risk that a check/raise has over a turn lead. [/ QUOTE ] That makes a lot of sense. Thanks. What about if you are in position, and villain donk bets you after he c/c your flop cbet? Is pushing in this situation just as spewy? [/ QUOTE ] I think its even more spewy as a donk means he either has a strong hand and is protecting against draws, or he has a marginal hand and wants to know where he is at (if its a small bet pricing himself in for a draw you don't want to raise this either since you have a draw to the nut flush). If he has a strong hand we can call and expect to get paid off on the river if our flush hits; if he has a marginal hand and we whiff we may be still be able to steal the pot on the river. My advice in this hand is very passive. I think turn aggression is very important and is very underrated; and even though we don't have a strong read I just think what we have seen of villain's play we should really discount the FE we think we have; and the fact that we're the preflop raiser it may seem like we're scared and going for pot control with a pair as opposed to drawing to a flush - which means we'll get a bet paid off on the river if we hit.
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#16
10-24-2007, 02:03 PM
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Re: big drop oop - standard or spewage?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why you potted the flop, seems unnecessary. As played that is a really bad turn card for you. It just nails his range. You shouldn't c/r this type of player though. They prob. won't fold JT/T9 type hands once they bet. Just lead turn for 60-70. [/ QUOTE ] If they aren't folding, then clearly c/c is better.
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#17
10-24-2007, 04:09 PM
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Re: big drop oop - standard or spewage?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm not sure why you potted the flop, seems unnecessary. As played that is a really bad turn card for you. It just nails his range. You shouldn't c/r this type of player though. They prob. won't fold JT/T9 type hands once they bet. Just lead turn for 60-70. [/ QUOTE ] If they aren't folding, then clearly c/c is better. [/ QUOTE ] Bilbo-San: your authority for correct advice damn near all the time. <3
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