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#1
07-22-2007, 09:30 PM
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Fire turn?
1k/2k on FTP. BN is Hoss. He seemed tilted earlier is a bit calmer now......he opens on the button, he steals so much that my QTo 3bet from the SB is mandatory. BB calls. Hes not great and the only reason Im playing this high. He ccs the sb quite a lot and is passive postflop somewhat, that said hes not openlimping or doing retarded [censored] every hand, he has some idea how to play and would probably beat 15/30 limit.
Flop is J83r I fire and they both call. Turn is a Jack. Action on me, who likes to bet this? What is our river plan?? 
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#3
07-22-2007, 10:04 PM
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Re: Fire turn?
[ QUOTE ]
I definitely fire the turn here. I think I am betting any river too even it they are both in (reasonalbe time for a protected pot bluff). [/ QUOTE ] i don't know why you would do this, you have a ton of outs against their respective ranges and you are getting raised everytime by an 8 (or any pocket pair really). Hoss probably would have raised the flop though if he had such a hand. BB could have an 8 though i imagine (or even a J). i am not a high stakes player though, posting more for my edification than anyone elses.
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#4
07-22-2007, 10:11 PM
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Re: Fire turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I definitely fire the turn here. I think I am betting any river too even it they are both in (reasonalbe time for a protected pot bluff). [/ QUOTE ] i don't know why you would do this, you have a ton of outs against their respective ranges and you are getting raised everytime by an 8 (or any pocket pair really). Hoss probably would have raised the flop though if he had such a hand. BB could have an 8 though i imagine (or even a J). i am not a high stakes player though, posting more for my edification than anyone elses. [/ QUOTE ] I dont know how passive the BB really is, but he is in a huge game so I would guess not very. I think it would be prety terrible play by the BB if he has any pair here on the flop. I think it is very unlikely either opponent has a pair.....
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#5
07-22-2007, 10:18 PM
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Re: Fire turn?
-DpR
perhaps you are right about the pair bit. But i think it would be equally rare to expect A hi to fold. i don't expect you are building much folding equity (the hand is three way and you are OOP). What's your motivation for betting, are you trying to get someone to fold KT or something? or making sure T9 has to pay to draw out?
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#6
07-22-2007, 10:31 PM
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Re: Fire turn?
I think leading and check/raising the turn are both viable options and which one you choose should depend on the dynamics of play so far. I think there's more chance than not of getting raised when you lead, so I think alot depends on how you've set up your metagame to this point. I don't think you can fold to a raise, since you'll have 10 outs enough times to see the river. The main thing is, I don't think I like completely giving up here by check/calling.
I'd like to comment on pre-flop. If the BB is the worst of you guys, I don't think it's terrible to sometimes float a steal raise (you don't say how many handed the game itself is). Bad players can add equity to hands like QT and not having the lead can sometimes work in your favor. This would've been an ideal flop and spot to c/r button with QT. As it turns out, the turn would've helped even more, but that's results orientated. I'm just saying that I'm more inclined to drive out big blinds who play better than me, and give the ones who play worse than I do, a chance to make mistakes. Within reason of course.
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#7
07-22-2007, 10:38 PM
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Re: Fire turn?
[ QUOTE ]
-DpR perhaps you are right about the pair bit. But i think it would be equally rare to expect A hi to fold. i don't expect you are building much folding equity (the hand is three way and you are OOP). What's your motivation for betting, are you trying to get someone to fold KT or something? or making sure T9 has to pay to draw out? [/ QUOTE ] One motivation would be to pressure the BB to fold (who has a player acting after him to consider). Hero already stated he likes his hand Vs. Button's range. So getting heads-up figures to gain some equity (if he's right about QT being a mandatory 3-bet pf).
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#8
07-23-2007, 01:27 AM
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Re: Fire turn?
[ QUOTE ]
I think leading and check/raising the turn are both viable options and which one you choose should depend on the dynamics of play so far. I think there's more chance than not of getting raised when you lead, [/ QUOTE ] I thinking having the turn check through is pretty bad for hero (in that he just blew some fold equity), thus I prefer the lead. Say it goes bet/call/fold on the turn. Now a K falls on the river, I think there is now a chance BB will fold a better hand on the river to a bet. (even moreso if the turn goes b/c/c). We ahve a fairly sizeable pot here, and IMO just giving up on the pot by check/calling is not the way to go.
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