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  #111  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:19 PM
kdubom kdubom is offline
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Default Re: The Life Cycle of a Poker Player (and my thoughts on live vs onlin

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Interesting post but has some academic pesssimistic point of view
I know taht now at 30 my intellect and learning ability is much greater now than it was at 19
and i expect it to continue growing i am sure there are many others who agree

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Hey AKoffsuit, I'm in my early 20s and scared of losing my mental acuity. In your opinion what are some reasons to why people lose that clarity, and how is your life, personality or circumstance different that you continue to improve? Thanks!
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  #112  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:36 PM
cpitt398 cpitt398 is offline
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Default Re: The Life Cycle of a Poker Player (and my thoughts on live vs onlin

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brandon never claimed to be one of the best NL players in the world, or to be better than the top NL guys online. dunno why you guys are lumping him in with 'sick call' kenny.


there is, however, a big big difference between 'being the best' and 'making monies'

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just agreeing with ya Crunk and wanted to point out what Brandon has that a lot of the "internet players" will never understand, Charisma and personality enough to get invited as a winning player into the games when there is a great spot or two in it and only so many seats to be had.

Theres got to be a reason Brandon is down so much online and still has a lot of money right.?
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  #113  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:49 PM
snagglepuss snagglepuss is offline
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Default Re: The Life Cycle of a Poker Player (and my thoughts on live vs onlin

i am surprised at the amount of love shown to this article.
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  #114  
Old 11-20-2007, 05:00 PM
sputum sputum is offline
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Default Re: The Life Cycle of a Poker Player (and my thoughts on live vs onlin

One plausible scenario of many. But one more book sold.. looking forward to reading it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #115  
Old 11-20-2007, 05:09 PM
wins_pot wins_pot is offline
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Default Re: The Life Cycle of a Poker Player (and my thoughts on live vs onlin

It's worth noting that most or all of the players in the Big Game have played on FT at some point, and only two of these players are up, as far as I know (Phil Ivey and PA). I'm not lumping myself in the same category as these players by any stretch, I'm just noting that live and online are very different. Obviously, the skill sets in live vs online are different. I speculate that another key factor is that it's hard to conduct your life in such a way that you are set up for success in both live and online play. The live winner is ultra-flexible in his lifestyle, always willing to travel or stay up late to get in/stay in the best games. The online winner needs to live a more structured life. -Brandon
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  #116  
Old 11-20-2007, 05:53 PM
dankhank dankhank is offline
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Default Re: The Life Cycle of a Poker Player (and my thoughts on live vs onlin

i have not read every reply so sorry if this has been mentioned, but a big reason why there is no garry kasparov in poker is because the financial rewards are much bigger in poker than they are in chess. i have no idea how much money kasparov made just before his prime, but i doubt it was anywhere near what ivey made. the third or fourth best chess player in the world has huge financial incentives to become the best. the poker player has no such motivation.

i can easily see a poker player with all the tools (such as emotional control and world class people-reading skills) reach the top of the field, and then fade back, having won more than enough money to live off of. to reach kasparov-level at poker, someone would have to be almost maniacal about either being the greatest ever, or winning an absurd amount of money that they'll never be able to spend. this would be an irrational person, but by definition, a kasparov-level poker player would have to be very rational.
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  #117  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:16 PM
What? What? is offline
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Default Re: The Life Cycle of a Poker Player (and my thoughts on live vs onlin

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And also hasn't BA been a well known online player for a number of years?

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Yeah he was exposed by Prahlad as a likely colluder in the big UB games awhile ago.
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  #118  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:22 PM
ike ike is offline
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Default Re: The Life Cycle of a Poker Player (and my thoughts on live vs onlin

[ QUOTE ]
The story of my poker life in 07 is that I was a big loser online, but I was the biggest or second biggest winner in live poker from May-August. On the whole, that has left me pretty flush.

My online play has suffered from some bad life management... I've been living a bit too fast, trying to do everything on a high level. It is ridiculous to play the biggest online games in hotel rooms while you are on respite from the biggest live games, and, yet, this is what I've been doing. Moreover, I basically didn't have a home from May-early November, and I was dealing with the stress of a broken engagement. I feel that my level of poker knowledge is at a world-class level, and in the past (especially 05) that led me to good success online, but this year my online endeavors have been a failure. I can't say how much of that is due to variance and how much is due to bad play.

Here's a good illustration of the difference b/w live and online....
David Peat (Viffer) is one of the best live NL regulars. Online play is all about optimizing one's bluffing/value-betting ratio based on the tendencies of your opponents. Well, for six months, Viffer had a policy of never bluffing Kenny. That is, if he bet big on the river against Kenny, he was never bluffing. For him, that was optimal... if Kenny knows when you're bluffing, your optimal bluffing percentage is 0. Something like that just makes no sense in the context of online poker.

Brandon

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i've played with viffer live and online and think he plays very mediocre poker in both contexts.
however, when i played with him live he was best friends with all of the fish and succeeded in getting himself invited onto antoine walker's private jet so they could continue the game when antoine had to leave. this didn't actually happen, but antoine and his friends were fairly serious about it.
i have no doubt viffer makes a lot of money playing live poker, but i really don't think its because he's one of the best no limit hold'em players around. i don't think he could beat a table of first rate online 5/10 players, even if they were playing live.
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  #119  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:24 PM
ike ike is offline
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Default Re: The Life Cycle of a Poker Player (and my thoughts on live vs onlin

[ QUOTE ]
It's worth noting that most or all of the players in the Big Game have played on FT at some point, and only two of these players are up, as far as I know (Phil Ivey and PA). I'm not lumping myself in the same category as these players by any stretch, I'm just noting that live and online are very different. Obviously, the skill sets in live vs online are different. I speculate that another key factor is that it's hard to conduct your life in such a way that you are set up for success in both live and online play. The live winner is ultra-flexible in his lifestyle, always willing to travel or stay up late to get in/stay in the best games. The online winner needs to live a more structured life. -Brandon

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this is a very interesting post and speaks to a lot of what i was just saying about viffer. i didn't even want to get on that flight because i didn't want to have to figure out how to get back from miami and miss two days of online play for 100 hands vs huge fish...
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  #120  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:30 PM
blueodum blueodum is offline
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Default Re: The Life Cycle of a Poker Player (and my thoughts on live vs onlin

I'll chime in with praise for Brandon as one of the best poker writers around.

Someone mentioned that top bridge players can stay world-class into their 50s. I think there is a demographic issue at work. I'd guess that 50 years ago, when bridge was very popular, the age range of the top players was much lower. Nowadays, comparatively few young people learn bridge in a serious way, so there is a lack of young people to push out the old guard.

The same was true of poker 20-25 years ago. If you look at some of the footage from the WSOP back then, you don't see many twenty-somethings.

Now, with the Hold'em boom, and online poker providing the ideal training ground for new talent, there is a flood of young people entering the game, drowning out the old guard by sheer numbers (if not innate ability).

Also, currently, the average age of top chess players is solidly in the 25-35 age range, as it has been for about 4 decades. There are still a fair number of young phenoms coming into the game - in fact by age 21 they are veterans, having played serious chess for over a decade in almost all cases.

IMO, Kasparov would have maintained a top 5 ranking for another couple of decades had he wished too, but there was no doubt that his abilities were in slight decline.

The amount of work required to stay at the top in chess is much greater than the effort required to become a top poker player. With all the analytical tools available to chess players now, the best prepared player usually wins out. Though Kasparov has great innate chess skills, most observers thought that he maintained his grip on the top spot because he out-prepared his opponents.

If you could measure the "chess IQ" of the top 15 players in the world, I doubt there would be significant differences. I think the differences arise in work-ethic, fitness level and the ability to deal with pressure.

I think the same is and will be true of top poker players.
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