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#12
10-23-2006, 10:22 PM
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Re: maniac comes alive on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
And if you really think villain has a weak ace you should fold to the turn donk. [/ QUOTE ] Decisions usually aren't that cut&dry unless you're getting 1:1 on your money. 
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#13
10-23-2006, 11:15 PM
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Re: maniac comes alive on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I like the turn reraise, but I would have c/c'd the river for fear of a weak ace. Then again I'm a coward. [/ QUOTE ] You can't check-call the river, you're in position. And if you think this is a weak ace you shouldn't like the turn raise. [/ QUOTE ] Whoops, missed position there. I like the turn raise until it's called, then I'm thinking weak ace, which is why I would check behind on the river. I don't think a river bet is going to push out any hand that's ahead?
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#14
10-23-2006, 11:21 PM
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Re: maniac comes alive on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] villian is a complete maniac from what i've seen (about 6 hands) [/ QUOTE ] Please tell us you're kidding. [/ QUOTE ] its a fine read.. how do you want him to phrase it.. the guy has been gonzo every hand he's seen and he noted that it was a small sample. i'd call the turn and show this down. i am not folding, but i don't want to spend 4 BB's on the big street either. might help solidify the read.
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#15
10-23-2006, 11:53 PM
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Re: maniac comes alive on the turn
whydo you raise on the turn i think you should call. you want him to fold?
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#16
10-24-2006, 12:09 AM
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Re: maniac comes alive on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] And if you really think villain has a weak ace you should fold to the turn donk. [/ QUOTE ] Decisions usually aren't that cut&dry unless you're getting 1:1 on your money. [/ QUOTE ] I don't really know what you're getting at. I was making a point in response to a poster who advocated raising the turn, but then checking the river, and the poster stated that he believed villain had a weak ace. I was saying that if this was true (i.e. somehow known with 100% certainty), then in these circumstances folding to the turn donk would be the correct play. I'm aware that things aren't usually this "cut & dry" and I have no idea what you're getting at with the remark about getting !:1 on my money. Are you suggesting that I didn't notice something I should have about the pot odds? If what you're saying is that we can't in fact put villain on such a narrow range, especially given OP's (not that strong) read that villain is a maniac, I totally agree. I was trying to come to that very point by asking leading questions.
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#17
10-24-2006, 02:07 AM
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Re: maniac comes alive on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] villian is a complete maniac from what i've seen (about 6 hands) [/ QUOTE ] Please tell us you're kidding. [/ QUOTE ] its a fine read.. how do you want him to phrase it.. the guy has been gonzo every hand he's seen and he noted that it was a small sample. i'd call the turn and show this down. i am not folding, but i don't want to spend 4 BB's on the big street either. might help solidify the read. [/ QUOTE ] "'Tis a fine pool, English, but 'tis no barn." "D'oheth!" a) OP never said that the guy had been gonzo on all 6 hands; and b) there's plenty more information that needs to be included if you're giving a 6-hand read, e.g. has the OP only seen 6 hands with Villan because the Villan just sat down (establishing a table image) or becuase the OP just sat down (much more likely, imo, to be reasonably construed as being a maniac), was the Villan short-stacked, yada yada. To me this smells like a "read" that is provided to justify the turn raise, that's what I'm driving at. fwiw, I'm likely to call this down as well against an unknown, which is what we have here, not because of some made-up read.
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#18
10-24-2006, 05:04 AM
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Re: maniac comes alive on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] villian is a complete maniac from what i've seen (about 6 hands) [/ QUOTE ] Please tell us you're kidding. [/ QUOTE ] its a fine read.. how do you want him to phrase it.. the guy has been gonzo every hand he's seen and he noted that it was a small sample. i'd call the turn and show this down. i am not folding, but i don't want to spend 4 BB's on the big street either. might help solidify the read. [/ QUOTE ] "'Tis a fine pool, English, but 'tis no barn." "D'oheth!" a) OP never said that the guy had been gonzo on all 6 hands; and b) there's plenty more information that needs to be included if you're giving a 6-hand read, e.g. has the OP only seen 6 hands with Villan because the Villan just sat down (establishing a table image) or becuase the OP just sat down (much more likely, imo, to be reasonably construed as being a maniac), was the Villan short-stacked, yada yada. To me this smells like a "read" that is provided to justify the turn raise, that's what I'm driving at. fwiw, I'm likely to call this down as well against an unknown, which is what we have here, not because of some made-up read. [/ QUOTE ] listen. i'm trying to get better at poker. not get advice on random non-existing hand/reads, that doesnt make any sense. i simply stated that the maniac is a maniac. yes, i had just sat down at the table. yes he was acting crazy 6 out of the 10 hands i was there. no he wasnt short stacked yata yata. it sounds like your just mad becasue you tried to be a jerk and btspider called you on it. i'm very new and i dont want to make enemies right out but your post was un-called for and degrading. Thank you to everyone who actually put thought into the the thread and added advice, i appreciate it.
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#19
10-24-2006, 11:24 AM
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Re: maniac comes alive on the turn
Yort, here's my point: 6 hands of a read, or 10 hands with 6 hands played, or whatever, isn't enough for you to be pulling a play like this on the turn. The most popular overcard in the deck to your pair is on the board. There's also a straight possible, and a board that might give two pair to a player that will play low, offsuit connectors and trash like that.
Here's a question: what was your plan if he'd 3-bet you on the turn? Now, regardless of your answer, think about how that ISN'T a bad play against a possibly nutbag Villan on this board. Folding's no good, as he could just be affirming your read; calling is no good, given the texture of the board; capping is just out of the question. otoh, if he's donkbetting a worse hand than yours on the turn, do you really want to give him a reason to fold, or are you better off with him betting into you again on the river? The point I was making, and if you stick around you'll hear it a hundred times (probably a few times from bt), is that you can't put a lot of stock in a small-sample read. A better point, now that I think about it a little more, is that most reads aren't going to change how you should play a hand like this one in micros (obviously a read that this Villan wouldn't donkbet the turn without at least two-pair is the exception, but you would have to be very sure of your read).
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#20
10-24-2006, 12:44 PM
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Re: maniac comes alive on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
it sounds like your just mad becasue you tried to be a jerk and btspider called you on it. i'm very new and i dont want to make enemies right out but your post was un-called for and degrading. [/ QUOTE ] just seconding boz... he is pretty much right on here. chill out a bit and just try to take it in, noone is trying to degrade you.
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