Pregnant GF

[Edge34]

Blarg,

I'm not "pro-life". Abortion, if the woman wants it, is fine with me. I also don't set my standards for respect at just having a baby. I set my standards for respect at taking responsibility for one's own actions, something OP (and from the tone of this thread, about 90% of OOT) refuse to do in this situation.

The girl has accepted that she f***ed up. The dude has not. He tries to come up with excuse after excuse and STILL hasn't come back to give us any information. But the simple fact is that he's the guy being selfish. She's in school and is planning on having this kid. What is there for this guy to give up?

For what its worth, I think adoption would be a great choice here. But I think bailing on a girl who you claim to love just because YOU knocked her up is pretty low-class IMO. The least he could do is help her with whatever decision she decided to make, but he's too worried about being a crappy rounder and all his dreams being "crushed" to see the big picture.

[TheDudeAbides]

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If she won't have an abortion just move on, leave her behind.
Why would you want to be stuck bringing up a kid in a craphole town for the rest of your life, just see it as planting your seed, you don't need to be around to see it grow up.

You play poker for a living so can pretty much live anywhere in the world, you only lived 1/4 of your life, why waste the other 3/4 on this crap!

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You are a massive douchebag.

[Cablelessray]

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I've been with my GF for about a year and a half now. She's 20, I'm 22. She was grown up Catholic, but lost her religion a few years ago. Nowadays she is very liberal and openminded. We have a very healthy, open relationship. Very good communication. We almost always know how the other is feeling/thinking.

During our ENTIRE relationship, we've had numerous conversations about how neither of us are ready to have kids, how we've got the whole world to see before we drop anchor, and how if we're ever in that situation there is only 1 way to handle it.

That's right folks, I've been planning ahead for this scenario for the extent of the relationship. I've made it perfectly clear from day 1 that I will not be ready to have kids until I'm 25+. She never had any problems with that, and seemed to completely agree. We would constantly make jokes about how "we're not driving a [censored] minivan" "no way we're raising a kid in this crappy town" etc etc. She has been taking her birth control every day for ~4 years. Even when we pass out drunk, she'll wake up at 4am and take it - no exceptions.



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next time get it in writing

[WillMagic]

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People like you are pretty much despicable. How has nobody actually addressed that "a month ago, [OP] was 90% sure he wanted to marry this girl"?

He claims he loved her, and now that some real [censored] is happening and its not all just sex and poker, he's getting cold feet. I respect the girl a lot more for accepting the fact that life just changed. OP is a little pussy.

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OP isn't a pussy. OP actually has some self-respect - enough not to stand idly by while a girl breaks her word and tries to ultimatum him into raising an unwanted child. To stand by a girl who has demonstrated such an complete lack of trustworthiness and mutual respect...well, that would be being a pussy.

[entertainme]

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If BC is taken properly and I mean to the letter properly, then it is quite effective. Someone getting pregnant while on BC and properly taking it is statistically unlikely and thus unlucky.

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I just have to address this point because it's been repeated here a couple times. The pill is about 99% effective in clinical situations where they ensure 100% it's taken properly etc.

For women taking it in real life, it's about 95% effective. Go to other forms of birth control, like the patch and real life effectiveness is like 93%. So, if 100 girls at your school are on the patch, 7 of them will be pregnant in a year.

I can assure you that millions of kids were conceived while their parents were practicing birth control to the best of their ability.

If nothing else I think this thread has been useful in opening eyes to the fact that you really need to be extremely cautious if you want to avoid being in this situation yourself.

[jackdaniels]

I think Blarg is spot on and it would behoove you guys who think you are "independant thinkers" to read his stuff and try to understand it.

To OP: If there is any lingering doubt as to whether or not you want to have this child, give it some very serious consideration. Having kids can be a very fulfilling experience and one need not be 100% settled in their lives to be a good parent, especially if you are willing to forgo some plans you may have had for the near future in exchange for new plans that include a child.

If, on the other hand, you feel 100% SURE you do NOT want this child, then you need to make this crystal clear to your GF.

It is funny to me how some people read this thread and all they see (from those advocating that he flee) is that these people are scum bags. The ones who feel this way have long since forgone any semblance of critical thinking and are simply adhering to social norms which state this to be the case. If you took a few minutes to consider the reality of the situation, you may have an epiphany that would change your world view and possibly, change our world for the better.

Some axioms to consider:

1. I am only speaking to those who don't have a moral objection to abortion. If you do, then another conversation is in order, but it cannot go in this thread.

2. Abortion is quick, painless and almost 100% effective/safe. A good comparison would be going for a root canal. It is unpleasant and sure, there may be complications, but if you need to go, you go and get it done. If you need any help/convincing on this point, I reffer you to the Planned Parenthood website. For a glimse of what you will find there, note that they recommend Tylenol or Advil if you experience any of the mild side effects... Not exactly the kind of medication you'd expect if this was a procedure frought with danger.

3. In a relationship between 2 people who get pregnant there can be only 2 votes on either abortion or carrying the fetus to term. Someone needs to be the tie breaker and since it is the womans body, she should rightly be that tie breaker.

4. When we have sex, we do so today for a variety of reasons, where procreation is only one of them. In fact, we have MUCH more sex for reasons OTHER than procreation.

Now comes the point of discussion:

If one of the 2 parties decided on a unilateral course of actions, should this decidion bind the other party to 18 years of financial commitment (child support)?

I put forth that the GF is free to have a baby and keep it, have an abortion or have the baby and give it up for adoption (though the father may have something to say at this point). If she chooses to have the baby though, she should be personally responsible for raising the child with the help of anyone she can CONVINCE to help her.

Using the strong arm of the law in order to force a sexual partner, whom she had been sleeping with for reasons OTHER THAN procreation (we know this for a fact since they did not intend to get pregnant), is moraly objectionable to me. She is essentially forcing upon the OP 18 years of servitude to a child SHE is choosing to have (without his consent and without his previous knowledge), even though there is a simple procedure (abortion) in place to deal with this exact situation - unwanted, unplanned pregnancies.

The sick thing is that while abortion is available to anyone, it is the young, unwed, still in school, no job, no husband girls who unwittingly get pregnant (through either lack of education or lack of caring) that should be taking advantage of this the most. By establishing a societal norm that FORCES the financial support of the father as well as additional, mandated by law, support from the state - we are encouraging these young women to (in most cases) throw away any chance they have of a better future for themselves and a brighter future to any children/family they may have if they waited till they were ready both financially and emotionally to have kids of their own.

[Tom Ames]

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The OP hasn't said much since he started this firestorm, ...

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OP's lack of actual feedback to these responses is pretty sad.

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There seems to be a clear pattern emerging here.

[QuickLearner]

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I think Blarg is spot on and it would behoove you guys who think you are "independant thinkers" to read his stuff and try to understand it.

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I think Blarg made some excellent points and I disagree with him on a few of them anyway. No need to blame that on my failure to comprehend, though.


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It is funny to me how some people read this thread and all they see (from those advocating that he flee) is that these people are scum bags. The ones who feel this way have long since forgone any semblance of critical thinking and are simply adhering to social norms which state this to be the case. If you took a few minutes to consider the reality of the situation, you may have an epiphany that would change your world view and possibly, change our world for the better.

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I took the few minutes. Just what kind of epiphany should I have experienced? I still think that the OP is simply looking for support from his peers in his decision to abrogate his responsibility.


[ QUOTE ]
Some axioms to consider:

1. I am only speaking to those who don't have a moral objection to abortion. If you do, then another conversation is in order, but it cannot go in this thread.

2. Abortion is quick, painless and almost 100% effective/safe. A good comparison would be going for a root canal. It is unpleasant and sure, there may be complications, but if you need to go, you go and get it done. If you need any help/convincing on this point, I reffer you to the Planned Parenthood website. For a glimse of what you will find there, note that they recommend Tylenol or Advil if you experience any of the mild side effects... Not exactly the kind of medication you'd expect if this was a procedure frought with danger.

3. In a relationship between 2 people who get pregnant there can be only 2 votes on either abortion or carrying the fetus to term. Someone needs to be the tie breaker and since it is the womans body, she should rightly be that tie breaker.

4. When we have sex, we do so today for a variety of reasons, where procreation is only one of them. In fact, we have MUCH more sex for reasons OTHER than procreation.

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1. Okay, I qualify.
2. I wouldn't expect a pro-abortion website to give an unbiased assessment of the gravity of the procedure. I'd rather she speak to her ob-gyn. There is another person who is affected by the abortion. Do they say whether Tylenol will bring the fetus back to life? Do they have anything to say about the emotional wreckage that sometimes results when young women are forced into decisions like this by inconvenienced boyfriends? Or is that part of that other discussion that we should somehow ignore as if it isn't at the heart of the issue?
3. Right.
4. Right. So?

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Now comes the point of discussion:
.
.
.
The sick thing is that while abortion is available to anyone, it is the young, unwed, still in school, no job, no husband girls who unwittingly get pregnant (through either lack of education or lack of caring) that should be taking advantage of this the most. By establishing a societal norm that FORCES the financial support of the father as well as additional, mandated by law, support from the state - we are encouraging these young women to (in most cases) throw away any chance they have of a better future for themselves and a brighter future to any children/family they may have if they waited till they were ready both financially and emotionally to have kids of their own.

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I thought that that discussion didn't belong in this thread. Maybe dissenting opinion is what doesn't belong, eh? I did read your thoughts and I think that to advocate the position that fathers shouldn't be responsible for their children means that you don't think that would undermine the family structure in general. I think it would. There are a whole lot of unmarried teenage mothers who love their babies and loved the (now absent) men who helped them conceive. Socity would be better off if those men had stuck around and helped.

Blarg's position is influenced by his own background and I respect it. I just disagree with some of what he says. I hope you can respect my position and not just assume that I am one of those "independant thinkers" who couldn't understand his stuff even though I read it.

[kerowo]

Folks saying the GF lied about or went back on her word about abortion and then using that to justify the OP abandoning her and his child are idiots. Like any life changing event, talking about what you are going to do in that situation without actually being in that situation isn't worth much. You just don't know how you are going to react until in the moment. So the GF didn't think she wanted a child and actively tried to avoid having one. Now she is pregnant and it turns out she wants it, totally standard. If she was luring OP into marriage or something by saying no kids while secretly not taking the pill or whatever that would change things, but changing her mind doesn't.

If the OP doesn't want to be around to raise the child that's his decision. However, he is the father and he does have a responsiblity to support the child. Responsibilty is a bitch.

[WillMagic]

QL,

your snip is really really blatant. the answer to your:

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4. Right. So?

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is the lines that you snip out in the next quote, namely:

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If one of the 2 parties decided on a unilateral course of actions, should this decidion bind the other party to 18 years of financial commitment (child support)?

I put forth that the GF is free to have a baby and keep it, have an abortion or have the baby and give it up for adoption (though the father may have something to say at this point). If she chooses to have the baby though, she should be personally responsible for raising the child with the help of anyone she can CONVINCE to help her.

Using the strong arm of the law in order to force a sexual partner, whom she had been sleeping with for reasons OTHER THAN procreation (we know this for a fact since they did not intend to get pregnant), is moraly objectionable to me. She is essentially forcing upon the OP 18 years of servitude to a child SHE is choosing to have (without his consent and without his previous knowledge), even though there is a simple procedure (abortion) in place to deal with this exact situation - unwanted, unplanned pregnancies.

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