Whats up with the 8?

[Jorge10]

Lately I have been thinking about hands with an 8 in it that arent low. I mean great looking high hands that have the 8 as a dangler, if it can be considered that. A couple of examples:
A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I have been playing these hands and so far I cant remember winning much with them. Does the 8 just make these type of hands worthless? I mean it plays with the J and the 10.

I cant figure out if I am just running terrible or if they are just bad hands to play. How are you guys doing with these hands? Is it a leak to play them? By the way I currently play them in PLO8 only. I stopped playing these hands in LO8 because they never seemed to win. I am hoping one of these scoops a big pot in PLO8 thats why I keep playing them.

[RobNottsUk]

It's a trap.

In a loose game, Hi hands with a '9' are somewhat tainted, because when you make a str8, frequently it's for 1/2 pot as there's an 87 and another Lo card on board.

8...A is building the worst Lo possible, featuring an Ace.

If you think of Lo hands to build as 5432A, 7632A etc you'll realise why an '8' is a liability.

[MattS]

I also play the first two hands in PLO8 even if they only contain a suited ace. With the first hand I lose money (0.16 PTBB in 34 hands) and with the second I win money (1.53 PTBB in 25 hands). The sample size is way too small to draw conclusive results but these hands will probably break-even hands or small winners in the longrun.

The last hand is in my opinion weaker because you have no back up low and you are not drawing to the nut flush. I don't play this type of hand.

[StrikeR300]

I believe all of these hands should be in the arsenal of an experienced big bet O8 player (not for the faint of heart/WTP's/nutpeddlers).

However IMHO limping them in EP/MP FR is likely a losing propostion, as the occational freeroll doesn't make up for the 2nd bests/splits/quarters/inability to get paid off. I'll qualify that by saying in most games I've played on the net, & likely with a fairly TAG/competent table image.

[RobNottsUk]

[ QUOTE ]
Lately I have been thinking about hands with an 8 in it that arent low.


[/ QUOTE ]
I add a bit more the structural problems in those hands, which may cause you to lose the big pots, and tend to win the small ones. For example :

[ QUOTE ]

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]
The AKs combo is less likely to be paid as opponent can only make Q-hi flush.
The 8 doesn't make a str8 to the K.

You basically have a 3-card Hi hand with Emergency Lo potential, when an opponent's A2 no backup Lo busts.

Compare with :

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Now when Nut Lo draw is counterfeited, you're beating 5,6,7 backup cards. Same str8 potential. You can back door the 2nd nut flush, and have the nut flush versus 2nd nut flush.

The surprise value of trip 8's, risks running into full houses, and if the other card is Lo, then someone trying to bluff you might b'door a Lo to escape.

Overall your cards are not working all together, so it's unlikely to catch a flop as 'hard' as you'ld like, leaving you with tricky marginal decisions.

This is going to be less of a problem for those playing smallball who read the game well. But may explain why you've found them troublesome.

[TheCount212]

I think 6s, 7s, 8s and 9s are only good when they come in pairs.

[niss]

[ QUOTE ]
I think 6s, 7s, 8s and 9s are only good when they are in someone else's hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

[fishyak]

Per Bill Boston's book:

Hand 1) EV neutral, 20.7% chance to win at least a part of the pot. Hand rank 773.
Hand 2) +EV, 18.9% chance to win, hand rank 868.
Hand 3) -EV, 2.6% chance and 2871 hand rank.

Look how powerful the Ace is.

[TheCount212]

LOLOL... point well taken, sir!

[Jorge10]

Kind of a mixed bag of replies. It seems that I am just running bad with these hands. The Ace is also very important it seems.