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  #1  
Old 11-22-2007, 03:02 AM
JSampras1 JSampras1 is offline
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Default Stars 1/2 - Several cbet hands - to cbet or not to cbet?

I think playing overcards is costing me a bunch of money. Here are a few hands. Maybe you could give me some advice on what i should do?

#1: Villain here is terrible, 53%VPIP 23%PF, 4.4 AF

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO folds, Hero ??

I think i have to c-bet here. I seriously doubt this donk has the Jack. How should i respond to villain's raise? Assuming i call or raise, what should i do if i do not pair the turn?

#2:Here I have KQ instead of AK so i think there's much less chance i'm ahead. Villain is 27%VPIP 6.5%PF, 1.33 AF

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero ???

Should i take 1 shot here? If called, should i just give it up, or keep betting?

#3: Here i'm in position, but i don't have oc's. I do have a straight draw+1 oc. I think i have to bet this right? If called, do i just check turn and cf, or what?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero ???

#4 OK last one i promise! Here i'm in the bb. 1st limper is 15%VPIP, 2.5%PF, AF .8
raiser has 12% VPIP, 7.5%PF, 1.17 AF

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls

Again, assuming i don't hit the a or the k, do you think this is bet again, or c/f?


Hopefully this wasn't too long. Thanks a lot for your help!
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2007, 03:32 AM
maverickai maverickai is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - Several cbet hands - to cbet or not to cbet?

I'm having a headache....
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  #3  
Old 11-22-2007, 05:10 AM
neurotiq neurotiq is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - Several cbet hands - to cbet or not to cbet?

Hand 1: Yes, c-bet. Yes, peel. Plan on folding turn unimproved against most villains.

Hand 2: c/c this flop if it comes back one bet to you. If it's raised, fold.

Hand 3: Fire the second bullet against most villains. Consider checking behind vs. a LAG who bluff check-raises too often.

Hand 4: Yes, c-bet the flop. Yes, c/f this hand unimproved on the turn against most villains
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2007, 05:37 AM
Harv72b Harv72b is offline
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Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 6,830
Default Re: Stars 1/2 - Several cbet hands - to cbet or not to cbet?

Hand 1: Your cbet accomplished exactly what you wanted it to, which was to get heads up with the lagtard. Now get to showdown cheaply (unless you improve).

Hand 2: Too many opponents, too little hand strength. Check &amp; reevaluate, leaning towards check/fold.

Hand 3: Any read on the opponent? In most cases I check through the turn planning to fold UI to a river bet, but that can change depending on reads/table dynamics.

Hand 4: You are never ahead vs. these two if the turn doesn't improve you, and I sincerely doubt you're getting either of them to fold if you fire again. Depending on the turn card I can see either check/call or check/fold...really, if this is me then I'm praying for a scare card to fall on the turn so I can maybe get a free look at the river.
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  #5  
Old 11-22-2007, 07:15 AM
JSampras1 JSampras1 is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - Several cbet hands - to cbet or not to cbet?

Thanks, sorry for the pain in the ass formatting. My session kept crashing so i had to do the whole stupid thing on notepad.

My only problem is I see a lot of ppl calling as little as 1 overcard on the flop. If i'm OOP, my problem is if i'm c-betting adn then c/folding any observant player can just call me every flop, then bet every time i check, and i will have to fold.

Even dumb LAGs or passive donks realize this, so i'm afraid idiot players will call me with a4 or something looking to spike the ace, then when i check bluff me out.

Maybe i'm being overly worried about this, but most of the good players i see online usually fire 2 barrels. Am i correct that you guys are saying usually just fire 1?
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  #6  
Old 11-22-2007, 07:27 AM
neurotiq neurotiq is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - Several cbet hands - to cbet or not to cbet?

No, I'm not saying that you should usually only fire once. In the hands you posted, sure, there was only one case where I advocated firing the second bullet. That doesn't mean that there aren't many more cases where firing the second bullet is appropriate.

JSampras1, you should read the following post on firing the second barrel; it's one of the best I've ever read on the subject and I guarantee that it will illuminate the concept for you: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=8710077
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  #7  
Old 11-22-2007, 07:43 AM
Smurph64 Smurph64 is offline
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Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,574
Default Re: Stars 1/2 - Several cbet hands - to cbet or not to cbet?

Hand 1 call down, it doesn't matter if you are beat here or not these are the types of hands guys will spew on. If you call down with AK they are going to eventually stop going over the top of you.

Hand 2 fr is not a raise for you because you don't know how to play it. Limp with it.

Hand 3 bet/fold the turn.

Hand 4 bet/call c/c river.
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  #8  
Old 11-22-2007, 10:51 AM
ThierryHenry ThierryHenry is offline
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Location: Coraopolis, PA
Posts: 50
Default Re: Stars 1/2 - Several cbet hands - to cbet or not to cbet?

I'll take a stab here.

Hand #1:With that flop you have a good chance of having the best hand. After the villian raises the flop you have to c/c down based on how aggressive he is.

Hand #2:Take one stab at the pot.

Hand #3:Bet the flop and bet the turn if he calls. there's a good chance with that board he only has some type of draw and you have the best hand. If called on turn take the free SD.

Hand #4:Bet flop. Bet/fold turn.
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  #9  
Old 11-22-2007, 12:11 PM
britspin britspin is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - Several cbet hands - to cbet or not to cbet?

Grunch:

1. Here I'm not so sure about the C-bet. Based on opponent why not C/R or C/C? With a 4.4 AF he's going to bet it whatever he's got. I'd likely C/C all the way against a player like this, unless I spiked.

2. I dojn't like the UTG preflop raise. I'll c/f flop unles the pot comes back to me with a couple of bets. If I'm looking at 12-1 or so, it's wirth seeing the turn with your 4 clean outs.

3. I bet this turn. It would be a marginal call for any flush draw and he's not indicating strength.

4. Bet and fold to a raise on the Turn.

Just as a general note, I've been paying attention to the number of absolutely appalling calls people make on the flor at 1/2. I'm talking 2 undercards, no straight draw, anything.

For a lot of people the game only seems to matter when you reach the big bets, when they apply the fit or fold mantra. This is a wonderful thing.
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2007, 07:26 PM
favreftw favreftw is offline
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Posts: 41
Default Re: Stars 1/2 - Several cbet hands - to cbet or not to cbet?

hand 1 I cbet and call down cuz hes a maniac
hand 2 I check, possibly check/call the flop
hand 3 I'd really like to see villains fold to turn bet % here...
hand 4 I c bet.. probably fold turn UI since these guys look pretty tight
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