25NL: Top Pair Hand. Pot Control Question

stinkpaw · #1 05-17-2006, 06:30 AM

I don't really have a good grasp of the concept of pot control. I hate putting my entire stack in with top pair, but I also hate giving such good odds to a drawing hand on the Turn.

Comments on all streets? Thanks.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 ($75.72)
MP2 ($11.05)
MP3 ($36.40)
CO ($30.75)
Button ($31.35)
Hero ($18.04)
BB ($16.70)
UTG ($26.26)
UTG+1 ($21.77)
UTG+2 ($23.17)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 2 folds, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero (poster) raises to $1.65, 1 fold, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $1.50, CO folds.

Flop: ($4.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3, MP1 calls $3.

Turn: ($10.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $5, MP1 calls $5.

River: ($20.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ???

maccamack · #2 05-17-2006, 06:35 AM

Check and call - I think you want to give him a chance to bluff at it with his missed flush draw.

ama0330 · #3 05-17-2006, 07:39 AM

Do you have any reads on this player? He has the whole table well outstacked and I think he's flopped something he likes and is riding you to the river. The reason I want a read is that the two main ways to win 3 buyins are either dumb luck or good skill, and I need to eliminate one.

Remember that a call can very often be a dangerous sign from a good player - it doesn't always indicate a drawing donkey. Being OOP I check this and call something reasonable but I wouldnt be surprised if he shows down a better hand than your aces.

I also think seeing as he called you off on the flop and the 6 is a brick, you should have made a move on the turn here and looked to end the hand. Does anyone think a C/R is good here? If he checks behind, I think a FD is a fair estimate, and if he calls, well you're likely beat and you can C/F the river.

Either way, I feel like a 1/2PSB is too small given the relative weakness of your hand. Keeping the pot small is a tactic you use when you want to see a cheap showdown, but to do that you have to have a strong, draw-proof hand relative to the board I'm not sure you want to take this hand all the way.

ChipStorm · #4 05-17-2006, 07:41 AM

Your whole stack winds up in play here in part because you're shortstacked and you raised preflop. If you're <100BB, rebuy whenever you can.

Preflop, despite AJo not playing well multiway, I'm not raising. You're just bloating the pot for a trap hand OOP. Be interested to hear how others play AJo from SB ring.

Flop, turn seem a shade small but OK, definitely lead.

Check/call river.

jii · #5 05-17-2006, 07:49 AM

I wouldn't raise with AJ from SB. It's not that strong hand, so calling is ok. If you want to raise, 6BB is too small raise with 4 limpers.

As played... Flop is very draw heavy, so 2/3 pot is too little, I would go with 4$. Turn is also bet for me, since a draw is the most common villain hand here. River check is ok, and since it induces a bluff, we must call a decent sized bet.

Check_The_Nuts · #6 05-17-2006, 11:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Your whole stack winds up in play here in part because you're shortstacked and you raised preflop. If you're <100BB, rebuy whenever you can.

Preflop, despite AJo not playing well multiway, I'm not raising. You're just bloating the pot for a trap hand OOP. Be interested to hear how others play AJo from SB ring.

Flop, turn seem a shade small but OK, definitely lead.

Check/call river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been told not to raise AT->AJ in the SB even for a blind steal attempt. The hand just isn't strong enough.

tminus · #7 05-17-2006, 11:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Be interested to hear how others play AJo from SB ring.

[/ QUOTE ]

i complete with so many limpers behind, i also call one donk-minraise if everyone is in, and raise if its suited.

xGREGORx · #8 05-17-2006, 01:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Be interested to hear how others play AJo from SB ring.

[/ QUOTE ]

i complete with so many limpers behind, i also call one donk-minraise if everyone is in, and raise if its suited.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto... and I check/call that river

viper930 · #9 05-17-2006, 03:45 PM

If you're gonna raise preflop, raise more.

Flop: Pot or near pot it.

Later streets will look very different after this.

stinkpaw · #10 05-17-2006, 04:10 PM

Wow. It surprised me that so many people didn't like the raise.

Wouldn't you rather play AJo HU in a raised pot against a limp/caller than play it in an unraised multi-way pot? You get a lot of dead money in the pot and can usually take it down on the flop unless villian hits a set or a draw.

If you don't like the raise then should I fold here? AJo is a poor hand multi-way, so why even complete?

What range is someone (who isn't being tricky limping a premium hand) does a typical villan have here? 22-99, AXs, KQ, JT. AJ is either 50/50 or a decent favorite against these hands PF.

Perhaps this is a big leak in my game. Please elaborate.