AllIn preflop post

Hobbs. · #1 11-29-2007, 03:40 AM

It makes a lot of sense to me. I will say though that a couple of reasons for 3-betting some aces are for metagame game and easy of play postflop (equity realization). As far as metagame goes (only really important against people we play with often) we would much prefer to have a 'don't [censored] with my blind' image that might cut down on your opponents stealing range in the future. As far as ease of play goes postflop, against somebody with a fairly wide opening range it becomes somewhat hard to play Ax/Kx UIed OOP. Very often when we take the initiative away we have an easier time winning the smaller pots when we are ahead.

Oink · #2 11-29-2007, 04:32 AM

Sorry for idiot reply, but statandard?

Pretty good post tho. I agree with about everything in it. I always get a good laugh when people 3-bet me with A2o out of the BB

EDIT: ATo/A9o is usually around where I 3-bet

sethypooh21 · #3 11-29-2007, 04:46 AM

Yeah, i definitely need ATo/A8s here to 3 bomb.

Oink · #4 11-29-2007, 04:54 AM

1 thing to note IMO

Yeah you are not folding a lot of better hands postflop when you 3-ball. But compared to just calling you might fold worse hands that would make you fold had you not 3-bet PF.

Say you just call and flop comes KT3fd with no bdfd for you. I would be folding here and giving up about 35-40% eq.

Now an argument can of course be made for me to not fold but I dunno about that.

In any case. 3-betting might not buy us a lot of implied FE but it will reduce our reverse implied FE as hero will now be the one to take down the pot on flops where he would have c/f'ed.

vmacosta · #5 11-29-2007, 05:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Say you just call and flop comes KT3fd with no bdfd for you. I would be folding here and giving up about 35-40% eq.

Now an argument can of course be made for me to not fold but I dunno about that.

[/ QUOTE ]

so here's my main problem. Frankly, on that KTxr flop, I think folding A7o is bad. AllIn agrees, I think, but many good players fold there (see that thread for examples). I think giving up 35+% equity getting 5:1 is dumb. But I guess I'm just as uncomfortable in that spot as other ppl, which is why I tend to 3-bet stuff like A8o pf. I know it sounds silly to make a -ev play in order to avoid a different -ev play. But I just don't get why ppl are so quick to dump all that equity getting 5:1.

sorry for the ramble, plz keep up with good responses--I am def in need of improvement here.

Oink · #6 11-29-2007, 05:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
sorry for the ramble, plz keep up with good responses--I am def in need of improvement here.

[/ QUOTE ]

So am I

The thing is with calling that flop is that people 2nd barrel me here. So I am calling to either improve on turn and c/f UI or to call turn UI and make a decision on river.

In either case I am getting owned. But I can certainly see how folding with 35% eq is terrible

yourface · #7 11-29-2007, 11:30 AM

vs people who play well I think c/f is best.

yes we pass up some equity, but vs guys who will be bluffing, semibluffing, value checking, and taking free cards with the right frequencies we are going to be playing a guessing game postflop. this means lots of FTOP mistakes, and therefore very high RIO

of course vs players who play predictably life gets a lot easier

thrasher789 · #8 11-29-2007, 01:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, i definitely need ATo/A8s here to 3 bomb.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed, that's a pretty good cutoff to 3 bet stealers imo

FlopYouDead · #9 11-29-2007, 01:26 PM

If I call a raise pf and c/f the flop I feel like an idiot. I called just to flop an ace or some horrid undercard flop?

If I call pf and c/c flop I feel like an idiot whether I then c/f turn or river or call down and show ace rag. If he shows a K I feel dumb and if he shows 44 I feel dumb.

It just doesn't seem like I'm giving my hand a chance. I win a minimal pot when I'm good or lose a substantial pot if I look him up. I'm also outdrawn a lot giving free cards to worse hands.

If I call pf it's not pot odds it's because I think my hand is good. If it isn't the 3 outer is not worth it. So I raise pf. In general I don't believe the cheap streets are the place to be saving bets.

Romulet · #10 11-29-2007, 02:01 PM

Having read the posts from the Med/Highstakes players the main point which hits home is the difficulty of playing this type of hand OOP.

From the concepts explored it would seem that the better player the button the bigger the mistake of 3 betting.
Looking at My PT stats all the Axo hands suck <A8 so we don't want to be investing any extra OOP.

It would seem that 3 betting is therefore an error.