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Old 08-31-2007, 05:33 AM
Vinetou Vinetou is offline
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Default 200NL cash inside straight flush draw turn - bet or check?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($201)
BB ($394)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, BB calls $4.

Flop: ($12) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $8</font>, BB calls $8.

Turn: ($28) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $18</font>, BB calls $18.

River: ($64) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $64

On the turn - do you prefer a bet or a check? I think a bet here is all right especially when I am not afraid of a checkraise by villain. It builds a pot with an inside straight flush draw but it turns my middle pair on the flop into a bluff. Also, I think I played very weak by checking on the turn. When he called me a second time, I put him exactly on a nine (I was right) and a pot sized river bet would probably push him off a hand. I took like half a minute to check river and I regret it. I have to work on turning my hands with showdown value into a bluff.

However, what do you think about turn bet? Do you prefer a check or a bet?
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  #2  
Old 08-31-2007, 06:00 AM
TNixon TNixon is offline
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Default Re: 200NL cash inside straight flush draw turn - bet or check?

What 9 did he have? I think it's going to be fairly difficult to push most players off many 9s here. They'd have to be convinced that you had an overpair, that you made 2 pair along the way, or that your flop bet was a continuation with overcard(s), and you caught the 6 outer. I think those are all hard sells against most players.

I'm no expert, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd probably play the exact same way you did, and then scream in frustration when I realized that I missed 17 outs on the river.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 08-31-2007, 07:52 AM
Vinetou Vinetou is offline
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Default Re: 200NL cash inside straight flush draw turn - bet or check?

He had 96s. I sensed some weakness because he took a long time to call a bet on the turn. I just didn't go with a feeling. This was a mistake.

But I am much more interested in turn play in this hand because these situations (when you c bet and pick up a draw on the turn) come up a lot. IP, I guess it is better to bet, while OOP to check call?
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Old 08-31-2007, 07:59 AM
creedofhubris creedofhubris is offline
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Default Re: 200NL cash inside straight flush draw turn - bet or check?

You guys are deep enough that there will still be a subtantial amount left to bet on the river even if he checkraises the turn. If stacks were such that one raise would get you close to allin, that would be a key reason to check behind.

In this case, I would probably still check behind, because although that card improves your draw, it also improves a number of likely hands that he might be holding. (76 T9 T8 T7 JT J9 J8 J7 QJ QT).

But a bet can't be too wrong.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:54 AM
olof86 olof86 is offline
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Default Re: 200NL cash inside straight flush draw turn - bet or check?

You need to build the pot on turn, so make it a potsized bet, you don't really mind getting raised here. A potsized bet could also make it easier to 3barrel-bluff once the K hits.

As played, I def. think you should make it somewhere close to pot on the river (it will work a lot).
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2007, 11:59 AM
abcjnich abcjnich is offline
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Default Re: 200NL cash inside straight flush draw turn - bet or check?

Turn is an easy bet. As far as heads up goes, you have a decently strong hand. It's actually +ev compared to checking, because it hides your draw better if you hit, therefore you get paid off more- this is math that some people may or may not actually understand, some people will think they do but they really don't.
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Old 08-31-2007, 02:21 PM
muxplust muxplust is offline
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Default Re: 200NL cash inside straight flush draw turn - bet or check?

[ QUOTE ]
Turn is an easy bet. As far as heads up goes, you have a decently strong hand. It's actually +ev compared to checking, because it hides your draw better if you hit, therefore you get paid off more- this is math that some people may or may not actually understand, some people will think they do but they really don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

would you like to elaborate?
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  #8  
Old 08-31-2007, 02:42 PM
creedofhubris creedofhubris is offline
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Default Re: 200NL cash inside straight flush draw turn - bet or check?

a bunch of your outs are not going to get you paid off particularly well -- the Q and the J will put up 4 to a straight on the board, opponent's going to tread cautiously.

agreed that the running flush will get you paid, but it will get you paid whether or not you bet turn.
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  #9  
Old 08-31-2007, 02:47 PM
Vinetou Vinetou is offline
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Default Re: 200NL cash inside straight flush draw turn - bet or check?

I have 38% of winning plus fold equity on both streets so I believe including both of these factors it would be a profitable bet. I might make some EV calculations about this hand when I have time (not a math wizard but trying to become one).
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Old 08-31-2007, 06:05 PM
whaahhahahah whaahhahahah is offline
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Default Re: 200NL cash inside straight flush draw turn - bet or check?


as for the turn, what creed said

as for the river, if the ace or k hits, i think you should make that bet. other cards, i don't think enough of his range folds often enough to make a profit
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