chip reese's chapter in super system 1 / general stud (semi long post)

[ill rich]

if you generally play the way he reccomends, will you be able to make a nice profit?

reason being is i busted out of my 2/4 hold em game, and was walking to the escalator to smoke a cig, when a floorman asked me if i wanted to play 1-3 stud. i bought in for $30 and using just basic ideas and a little of what i remembered from super system and i quickly turned that $30 into $80. i later burned it down to $22 and left as a loser ($8) but i feel like that game is so good, if i became an excellent stud player i could earn alot more then what i do at 2-4 holdem (which is a rock garden during the week, its only a good game fri-sun).

i was winning alot, when i played quality hands like big pairs, pairs with high kickers, live high flush draws, etc.

the players in stud seem to be "better" as in, they wont play without a hand (unlike low limit holdem), but you can still pound on them when you've got a hand (and they have anything reasonable, a pair, straight/flush draw) AND if you can read players you'll do great. most of these guys are old timers who have a good idea of what a good hand is and wont just bet with crap like they do in hold em (putting you in a guessing game on every street).

now, sorry i had to tell my "first stud story" but i was wondering what u guys thought of super system 1's chapter on stud. thanks

btw, the game is 1-3 spread limit stud, with a 50 cent ante and 1 dollar bring in by the low card.

[cgrohman]

Yes. Especially at the mid-stakes limits up to $10-$20 I would say. Reese is obviously not as in depth as Skylansky's book, but I still touch myself when I read it.

Where are you from in CT? If you are playing at Foxwoods, you should make a very comfortable profit playing tight agressive.

$5-$10 at the woods is like a genriatrics home during the week and you can steal them blind (unless they already are)

[iamastud]

I just want ot comment on the structure of the game that you are playing. That is a very high ante and bring in relative to the limits of the game. The antes and bring in will eat up your stack if you just wait for premium hands. as such, with that kind of ante structure, you will have no choice but to play more inferior holdings than you would otherwise than a game like 5/10 with a 50 cent ante and $1 bring in. You will not be a profitable player just waiting on premium hands in a 1-3 game that charges 50 cent ante. any semblance of a hand needs to be played in such a game.

as for the super system chapter on stud, i have not read it.

[Brad1970]

[ QUOTE ]
Reese is obviously not as in depth as Skylansky's book, but I still touch myself when I read it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really??? How does that usually turn out? +EV I hope!!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Anyway...Chip Reese is considered one of the best stud players alive, so if he recommends playing a certain way, then it can't be far from wrong. I haven't read any of his work but they say it's really good.

[Andy B]

The stud section of S/S is excellent, the one chapter of the book that is still relevant to poker as it is played today. 7CS4AP has better information, but ol' Chip should get you headed in the right direction.

Some will recommend that you play very loose in this game, and while you should play somewhat looser than you would in a $5/10 game, don't get carried away with it. The bottom line is that you're going to have to show down the best hand in order to win most of the time.

There are a fair number of hold'em players who play way too many hands but actually play reasonably well after the flop. In stud, it is pretty common for players to play poorly on all streets, and there are three expensive streets in most structured games, so that's a lot of opportunity for spewing. In this specific game, you're not going to have the opportunities to extract those big bets on later streets. Still, I'm guessing that the other players will be bad enough that you should be able to turn a decent profit, relative to the stakes, if you play well.

I'm pretty sure I could beat that $1-3 game for a tidy profit, relative to the stakes. I'm guessing I'd be about break-even in that $2/4 game. A $4 rake is a lot to overcome.

[MRBAA]

I've only played that 1-3 game once since they put in the .50 ante. The late, lamented poster CJC and I sat down for an hour for fun. Many of the old timers were still playing as if there were no ante (how it was) and you actually could blast them off hands some times. Also the players aren't good at all in this game -- as a rule they are awful. Enjoy.

[SplawnDarts]

I learned to play stud from that chapter, and I've never read another book. Pretty much everything I needed was in there. I did however work out for myself some probability tables for when you're drawing at someone with a re-draw. Beyond that, I just paid attention & used my head, and stud has always been a winning game for me up to about 200/400 mixed.

I think it's one of the clearest, best written pieces of poker writing I've ever read.

[Poker CPA]

Very basic, you need more

[ill rich]

cgrohman, yes i'm from northern CT. and play the $2-4$ texas hold em limit game frequently. the games are generally bad during the week and are only good on the weekends. the stud players are much different from the hold em players, and the games are good throughout the week. i want to make the switch to make more money. after this one game, i'm hooked.

iamastud, the ante didn't seem that bad, and when i played agressively, the pots could swell to over $30 easily even in a head up situation. plus, the ante is stealable if you open for the max of $4, which will get you a "free" 10 hands.

andy b., thanks for the encouragement. i'm really intrested in learning this game. i can read players physically pretty well and the game just seems easier to me then $2-$4 limit hold 'em due to the visible boards, and the large edge you can have just by constantly pounding someone with the best hand, in hold em, the players are usually getting good odds on their money making alot of calls correct.

MRBAA, yep you desrcibed the game pretty good. the bad players, are REALLY bad. there might be 1 or 2 other good players but the rest are pretty garbage.

SplawnDarts, thanks for the encouragement. i hope to become really good at this game.

Poker CPA, what more is there? what concepts does Chip neglect?

[Poker CPA]

Its simple yet very expensive. The majority of your losses will be to the fish and the majority of your wins will be from the fish. Just break-even against the expert players. This process requires investment capital.

First investment:
Its expensive to find out who the fish are and who the experts are, and all the "rakeback" players in between. In stud the percentage of fish is 4-7 times as high as Holdem fish. This illusion, at first, gets players like you hooked.
As much as 60% of players in "the pool" have no chance (this also depends on the site too). 25% are rakeback types. So it comes down to your play against the solid/expert player, which you hope to break-even against.

This is just one concept not covered by Chip and most other poker authors. Most will only give you encouragement because we always need new blood. You need time and money, more than you can imagine. So jump in, the water is warm.

Your chances are slim but Good Luck.