Stack to Pot ratio and how it applies to Omaha

[Runner Runner]

I just finished reading PNLH Vol 1 and just loved it. It really got me thinking about some of the things discussed in it and how they would apply to my regular PLO game.

For those who haven't read it, the SPR part of the book gets you thinking about how big of a preflop pot you want in relation to how deep you and your opponents are. It talks about how your target stack to pot ratio should be low (around 5-8 depending on your how likely your opponent is to pay you off with weaker hands) for hands that are likely to make 1 pair (big pairs, AK, AQ, etc...) and higher for lower pairs or suited connector hands, etc.....

It also talks about how big pair type hands really hate SPR's around 13, but suited connectors love SPR's in that range if you can steal the pot sometimes. Essentially, it gets you thinking about trying to either create a low SPR with big pair hands or keeping the SPR around 20 or so for pot control.

Anyways, this got me thinking about how and if it would apply to Omaha. One simple way that it applies is when you have AAXX and want to play the hand so that you stack off on any flop. If you find a way to get around 25-30% or more of your stack in the middle preflop and stack off on all flops, your opponents cannot get the best of you. So I guess in that situation your target SPR is around 1. I also dislike getting between 15-25% of my stack in as you often feel like you are committed yet against many opponents maybe you are not. So, an SPR of between 2 to 4 may not be ideal for AAXX hands.

So I guess for AAXX, I would say try and find a way to get the SPR around 1 and plan to always commit, if you don't think you can get it that low, then keep it above 5 and play real poker with your AAXX.

Anyone else given the SPR topic some thought in how it relates to Omaha? How about top set or rundown hands, are there ideal SPR's for these, or is the confrontational nature of Omaha on the flop (big draw vs big made hand) such that the line you take will be affected by how deep you are, but there really is no ideal SPR for preflop hands just different ways to play them.

[RoundTower]

I can't remember if I've read this book or not (is there another 2+2 NL book? I think I read that). But I think this concept is crucial and I have a lot of thoughts on it which I have not shared here.

[Ribbo]

Sadly doesn't apply to omaha.
Big pairs are always ahead preflop in holdem. This is not the case with omaha. There is little benefit to be had from thinking this way in omaha.
The concept is simple, you raise any hand preflop that has a reasonable chance of making a strong hand on the flop. On those occasions you hit the flop you carry on betting.
This applies equally to AAxx and 6789. Anytime you miss a flop with either hand, you slow down.

[jbird]

I didn't read the book, but I'm a bit confused. I do try to constantly think about how big / small I want the pot in relation to my stack and my opponents stack based on how my holding plays vs. my oppenents likely range of holdings -- but that isn't anything earth-shattering.

Are you saying the same thing or introducing some new concept?

[Runner Runner]

jbird - I am saying the same thing but am wondering if others have thought about it at a slightly higher level.

For instance, if you are playing a big pair with nothing else hand for set value alone, seems to me that you would be targeting a higher SPR (above 10), similar to playing a small pair in holdem.

I am wondering more about suited big pair hands, and rundown hands and whether they play better with certain SPR's or should your target SPR be more opponent and position driven (to get your opponent to play at an SPR they will be uncomfortable with)?

To a certain degree I agree with Ribbo, there are other things that are more important in Omaha because preflop hands run closer together in strength, but I do feel like the topic deserves some discussion.

[Dr_Chris]

Thanks for starting this discussion, after reading the book I have been thinking of how to implement these concepts in my omaha game.

I agree that the target SPR for AAxx type hands should probably be 1, if the flop is scary with multiple opponents and your facing a pot sized bet you’re not really committed.

For most other playable omaha hands that have ‘nut potential’ i think a SPR of 13 probably is very good, you don’t want it to be much higher because then you cant get your stack in the middle with only three rounds of betting. To reach this target i sometimes miniraise preflop if looks like the pot is going to be too small otherwise and this sometimes gives you a free card to improve if you miss the flop.

A kind of hands that i don’t think you can play profitable with a SPR of 13 are the double suited hands where you aren’t drawing to the nut flushes, maybe a target SPR of 4 would make these hands easier to play. But then these hands are trouble hands for me so I don’t know.



Chris

[ArgusSpets]

what is "PNLH Vol 1" please?

[jasonHoldEm]

Professional No Limit Hold'em Vol 1

[alavet]

uh-oh dont think it applies to omaha
there is few articles about how much % of your stack you should bet with your aces
i think its quite easy - you probably shouldnt commit more than 20% of your stack with not goddam premium hand HU if you think opponent have at least same skill as you. by "premium" hands i mean AAxx, KKxxs 5678s+