chip reese's chapter in super system 1 / general stud (semi long post)

[LandonM]

IIRC, Chip was a "consultant" on the chapter (much like most other contributors to SS1, save for Caro).
Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Doyle actually wrote much of it? I'll ask next time I see him. Sklansky could tell ya for sure.

[ill rich]

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IIRC, Chip was a "consultant" on the chapter (much like most other contributors to SS1, save for Caro).
Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Doyle actually wrote much of it? I'll ask next time I see him. Sklansky could tell ya for sure.

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how do you know that?

are you saying david skalansky didn't write the stud 8 or better chapter, or that bobby baldwin didn't write the limit hold em section? that seems odd... and also there's a lowball chapter and doyle said it's his worst game.

[LandonM]

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how do you know that?
are you saying david skalansky didn't write the stud 8 or better chapter, or that bobby baldwin didn't write the limit hold em section? that seems odd... and also there's a lowball chapter and doyle said it's his worst game.

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By comprehending words as they're written and not being an imperceptive retard.

"Special Note: Crazy Mike is quite an individual. His draw section speaks for itself... but more than that, I want to point out that Mike is the ONLY ONE (emphasis his, not mine) of my expert collaborators who wrote his own section. " - Supersystem, Cardoza Edition Pg 50

After introducing Chip Reese as his "Expert Collaborator on Seven Card Stud", the Stud Chapter begins with...

"When I was 18 years old, I was playing in a Seven Card Stud game one night in my hometown of Sweetwater, Texas." - Supersystem, Cardoza Edition Pg 129

... not to mention that the general writing style, texture and cadence is identical throughout the entire book in every chapter except the one written by Caro.

Also, Sklansky never wrote a "Stud 8 Or Better" chapter,

[trickyAAA]

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Its simple yet very expensive. The majority of your losses will be to the fish and the majority of your wins will be from the fish. Just break-even against the expert players. This process requires investment capital.

First investment:
Its expensive to find out who the fish are and who the experts are, and all the "rakeback" players in between. In stud the percentage of fish is 4-7 times as high as Holdem fish. This illusion, at first, gets players like you hooked.
As much as 60% of players in "the pool" have no chance (this also depends on the site too). 25% are rakeback types. So it comes down to your play against the solid/expert player, which you hope to break-even against.

This is just one concept not covered by Chip and most other poker authors. Most will only give you encouragement because we always need new blood. You need time and money, more than you can imagine. So jump in, the water is warm.

Your chances are slim but Good Luck.

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Not sure where you got these numbers from. I have seen stats that say that 80 percent holedm poker players are losing players. How can 4 - 7 times that be fish in stud?


It normally takes me about a half an hour at the table to figure out who the fish are. How can this be expensive? Granted, I know some players at the casino and get information from the regulars, but if you are observant, maybe it takes an hour and a half. If you keep a notebook, all the better. Before long you will be sitting down at the table and know who the fish are before you buy your chips.

In B&M games at the low levels (up to 10/20), the game is generally very easy to beat if you play by the book and can read the other players reasonably well. The reason for this is that many of the players there do nothing to improve their games. Some play poker like it is a slot machine. On weekends people are drinking at the table and chasing hands they shouldn't be in.

Please keep in mind when I say by the book, that the book tells you to vary your play in certain situtaions, so I don't mean the same whay every hand. Both these skills can be learned reasonably cheaply for someone of slightly above average intelligence.

Beating low limit stud games is not rocket science. You just have to be reasonably smart, willing to study, and observant of the other players. If you can do these things, you will have an edge in small limit stud games before very long.

[Poker CPA]

A losing player doesn't equal a fish. Down swings for 30,000 hands are not uncommon.

Beating a game doesn't equal a profit, especially at a B&M.

Expensive is relative the individual player. The value of your time, to play and STUDY, is a HUGE cost. The time to travel and the related costs is a pain is the ass. And of course your social life.

Stud Fish at B&M is about 15%, so all you have to do is break even against the remaining 85%. It will take more than a couple of hours (or trips) to do that. The regulars will have you down "pat" in one session, and they comprise at least 60% of the players.

And, above all, take a close look at the regulars and try to picture their lives outside of the B&M.

[trickyAAA]

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A losing player doesn't equal a fish. Down swings for 30,000 hands are not uncommon.

Beating a game doesn't equal a profit, especially at a B&M.

Expensive is relative the individual player. The value of your time, to play and STUDY, is a HUGE cost. The time to travel and the related costs is a pain is the ass. And of course your social life.

Stud Fish at B&M is about 15%, so all you have to do is break even against the remaining 85%. It will take more than a couple of hours (or trips) to do that. The regulars will have you down "pat" in one session, and they comprise at least 60% of the players.

And, above all, take a close look at the regulars and try to picture their lives outside of the B&M.

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Good points here in terms of time spent, and the relativity of the term expensive.

Most of the regulars in the stud game at the B&M where I play are retired people who live close by, enjoy the game, and some of them (those that win, there are regulars that lose) supplement their income. As retirees, they are there for the social aspect of the game primarily. There are, of course, others. However, the majority of the regulars fit this mold, and of those that do, I would say that 50% are beating the game, none are "fish" save a very few.

When I say beating the game, I mean beating the rake and making a profit on the game itself. I can't account for other people's travel expenses, if they are staying in a room at the casino, etc. But I do have a pretty good feel for who leaves the table with more than they came with and who doesn't (and for the regulars, I have a good feel for who does this in the long run). So, that is my definition for the purposes of this post.
I am curious why you say "picture their lives outside the game". Interesting thought experiment. I imagine most of them have grandkids, but maybe has lost their spouse and spend time at the casino. Some play poker while their significant other plays slots, so I know that some are still married. Beyond that they could be anyone I suppose. Can you elaborate a little on why you made this statement.

Regarding time spent studying the game - I guess I always enjoyed reading and studying in general so I didn't regard this as a cost, but you are right - for some it does need to be considered if you wouldn't otherwise be doing it.

Good post!

[Poker CPA]

I took the liberty to read some of your past posts to get a feel of your situation. And you play at the "TAJ" in AC. This stud room has the most hardcore and ruthless group of stud players on the face of the earth. As far as I know, they spread 1-5, 5-10, 10-20, 15-30, 20-40, 30-60 and 75-150 on a regular basis. These guys are not retirees and if they are grandfathers, they don't know who the grand kids are. Are you blind or is this a joke?

[Poker CPA]

Especially from Jan to memorial Day

[trickyAAA]

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I took the liberty to read some of your past posts to get a feel of your situation. And you play at the "TAJ" in AC. This stud room has the most hardcore and ruthless group of stud players on the face of the earth. As far as I know, they spread 1-5, 5-10, 10-20, 15-30, 20-40, 30-60 and 75-150 on a regular basis. These guys are not retirees and if they are grandfathers, they don't know who the grand kids are. Are you blind or is this a joke?

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You claim to know a lot about the players there, but then go on to say that as far as you know they spread . . .

So which is it? Do you play there? I am sure the players at the high limits are some of the best around. I play mostly 5/10. There are plenty of donkeys in this game. Last week I sat at a table with a guy who has at least 10 seven and sevens and was good for a couple of buy ins and a woman who had been up for three days straight playing, and from what one of the regulars tells me (he plays every day and witnessed it), was down about ten buy ins. And that is a typical day at the Taj. Sure there are regulars making money off this game. It is also not hard to figure out who they are if you go often enough and are observant. And some of them will give you information about the game and the other players if they see your face enough - (hey Joe, who is that guy? He seems good, but I haven't seen him before.) I make a consistent profit playing stud poker, and a significant part of it comes from this game. While I have been playing for a reasonably long time, a lot of the things I learned from experience are available in books and forums like this. And with internet poker, you can play a lot of hands in a short time at lower stakes and improve your game that way.

I am not going to argue with you. If you think the game is that tough to beat, then maybe it is. I am just giving my observations.

I still wish you would answer my question from the last post - why did you make the comment about what they are doing when they aren't playing poker?

[Poker CPA]

I am just giving my observations.

So am I. Good luck and God Bless