Is there anything more ridonkulous than the mid-limits in AC? - Page 5

*TT* · #41 11-27-2007, 02:26 AM

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Hmmmmm I wonder what the win rates of those hands would be vs a steal raise if you just folded them every time? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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nice one!

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I don't think many have necessarily said its correct to defend with them, but just that its certainly not that far off.

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Nobody said calling with 43o was correct, thats the ironic thing. Al was too busy reading what he wants to read and hearing only what he wants to hear to realize this. Its one pip below being optimal, a small mistake. And even Al's data provided from Stox's book showed empirical proof that its +EV to play 43o, ironic isnt it?

The BB's mistake was minor, Al's mistake however was HUGE.

Bob - threads like this make me miss AC [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Say hello to Stox for me. lol.

3rdCheckRaise · #42 11-27-2007, 03:10 AM

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Do the world a favor and cease living. As in the sports betting thread, you have hijacked a thread and taken it off onto a tangent.

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It looks like in every thread he is trying to stretch his 4 inches into 9...As i counted at least 4 winning high limit pros trying to teach one 10-20 regular ( who earned a downpayment on boardwalk condo playing 10-20) on how to play in HU or short situation...I think there an easy way to solve this argumenet...Both Bob and Drew will be playing 80 this weekend , I think i read that Dave is making a trip and i am pretty sure i'll be there too...Al, comeover, sit down, play awhile...

Torello · #43 11-27-2007, 04:18 AM

At the Bay101 20-40 a week ago there was a guy on a serious rush who called 3 cold pf with 84o, called 2 cold on a q72r flop, and runnered a 4 and an 8 to crack Kings.

He cashed out 7 racks.

In a totally unrelated tangent, I've been playing a lot of 20-40 there recently.

I might defend occasionally with 34o (player dependent), but I'd probably be planning on C/Ring the turn to take the pot away from you if I didnt hit and didnt think you did. If I hit a 4 there's a very good chance I'm showing it down.

*TT* · #44 11-27-2007, 05:24 AM

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Do the world a favor and cease living. As in the sports betting thread, you have hijacked a thread and taken it off onto a tangent.

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It looks like in every thread he is trying to stretch his 4 inches into 9...As i counted at least 4 winning high limit pros trying to teach one 10-20 regular ( who earned a downpayment on boardwalk condo playing 10-20) on how to play in HU or short situation...I think there an easy way to solve this argumenet...Both Bob and Drew will be playing 80 this weekend , I think i read that Dave is making a trip and i am pretty sure i'll be there too...Al, comeover, sit down, play awhile...

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[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I really miss the Borg. This post reminds me of the time when Drew (before he became solid, he was still wasn't so great at reading hands back then - times have changed), Action Bob, hot Lorie and me played 5 way 40/80 vs a series of guys who were sitting at the wrong table. Bob got the worst of it out of the four of us IIRC, but time and time again the 5th player was eaten alive. Ahhhhh the gold old days....

nineinchal · #45 11-27-2007, 06:15 AM

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Hmmmmm I wonder what the win rates of those hands would be vs a steal raise if you just folded them every time? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

You would lose zero, versus a long term theoretical loss per the tables in the book.

I don't think many have necessarily said its correct to defend with them, but just that its certainly not that far off. Now if we know its a raiser who will play very poorly post flop then surely its gotta be correct.

Do you really want to be up against a poor player when you are holding a 4-3o? I'll tighten up a bit here and cut my losses...

nineinchal · #46 11-27-2007, 06:23 AM

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Ok, so Al forgot what happens when you just fold, but isn't everyone learning the lesson of the statistics a little too well?

1. The table in WITHG is for a finite set of hands. The underlying mean of the distribution is not revealed to us and the hands that were marginal in the data sample may actually be losers (or bigger winners).

2. The results are the results for the play of a particular high limit player. I don't think we know who he is, but he likely plays better than Al. Against the same competition, Al may get crushed with 43s.

3. The results are for play against a particular set of steal raisers. We don't know them, either, but they probably play better than Al's competition.

So, maybe all we can say from that data is that one particular high stakes player should be relatively indifferent between playing or folding 43s to a steal raise. Al's opponent here should probably be deciding what to do based on other considerations or consideration of how well he plays vs. Al.

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Pretty good for a guy who claims to lack a formal education.

Check out the results for mid, low and grinder also, they are pretty similar to the high stakes.

nineinchal · #47 11-27-2007, 06:40 AM

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Do the world a favor and cease living. As in the sports betting thread, you have hijacked a thread and taken it off onto a tangent.

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Don't worry, I'll die once I use up all my comp dollars at the Borgata buffet which will be sometime about 2011 if I never play another hand. I am looking forward to eating two bagels and lox a week right up until my demise. Yum!!!

Such hostility over an internet argument! Please remember this; arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics; even if you win you are still retarded.

nineinchal · #48 11-27-2007, 06:53 AM

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[It looks like in every thread he is trying to stretch his 4 inches into 9...As i counted at least 4 winning high limit pros trying to teach one 10-20 regular ( who earned a downpayment on boardwalk condo playing 10-20) on how to play in HU or short situation...I think there an easy way to solve this argumenet...Both Bob and Drew will be playing 80 this weekend , I think i read that Dave is making a trip and i am pretty sure i'll be there too...Al, comeover, sit down, play awhile...

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First of all, I have two inches, I'm Jewish.

Secondly, why would I want to go up against a bunch of sharks like you guys? I'll stay down in a profitable 10/20 game, where I get people who don't know how to play at all, calling my button raises with 4-3o, or worse. After all, I gotta pay my mortgage on my condo, which I won my down payment for in the 10/20 Borgata game.

3rdCheckRaise · #49 11-27-2007, 10:48 AM

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I get people who don't know how to play at all, calling my button raises with 4-3o

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Who said a word about calling??? Drew discovered that 42s is hugely profitable for 3 bets so i like your chances to pay off that condo in the first session you play.

nineinchal · #50 11-27-2007, 11:12 AM

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I get people who don't know how to play at all, calling my button raises with 4-3o

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Who said a word about calling??? Drew discovered that 42s is hugely profitable for 3 bets so i like your chances to pay off that condo in the first session you play.

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That's the difference between 10/20 and 40/80. Nobody is raising to three bets with with a 4-2o in 10/20.

It will take me a few years to pay off my mortgage, granted, but I like my life to go pleasantly slow and serene, with fairly consistent wins at lower levels.