400NLCASH a villain makes a lot of small bets - love him or hate him?

[Vinetou]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($214.60)
Hero ($532.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $20</font>, Hero calls $8.

Flop: ($40) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $28</font>, Hero calls $28.

Turn: ($96) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $40</font>, Hero calls $40.

River: ($176) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $20</font>, Hero calls $20.

Final Pot: $216

Preflop raise is questionable. This hand happened a while ago, but I think he was tight so I decided to raise this hand. The problem with this hand are villain's small bets.

I know I am beat but I just have to pay off. He was also bluffing previously with AQ unimproved OOP the same way as he played this hand with these small bets. Odds that I am getting are just too big to fold. Somehow I love villains who do these small bets because I often catch them bluffing when I can't fold bottom pair because I am getting 8 to 1 and somehow I hate them because I have to pay them off when they do have a hand. I probably more love them than hate them.

What do you think about that hand? Also, do you love or hate those guys?

[jay_shark]

I don't mind your initial raise pre-flop but I don't like your call of his re-raise even tho you're getting 4:1 pot odds . You attempted to steal the blinds and it didn't work so you should consider letting it go . Most of your value comes from postflop , so you shouldn't be thinking that you have 4:1 odds so you should call with j-4 s . If on the other hand , he starts to re-raise you lightly, with any two cards , then I would call for sure .

On the flop , I would only think about re-raising if he c-bets the flop close to 100% of the time . If he only bets when he has the goods , then you only have about 5 outs which isn't strong enough to continue .

On the turn , you backed up into a flush draw and picked up an additional 9 outs . Your hand is certainly strong enough to continue and the river call is mandatory .

I love playing against these guys because it allows me to float lots of pots with them .

[imfatandugly]

hate them, for some reason i have alot of trouble with these guys. its very frustrating playing them

[Vinetou]

I called with J4s because this guy makes a lot of small bets postflop and I decided that it is worth it. In case I flop a flush draw, top pair, bottom pair I can draw profitably and even if he has an overpair, I won't lose a lot because this guy will make small bets. Preflop call might not be profitable against aggressive opponents who will make potsized bets but I am pretty sure it is against villains who underbet the pot all the time.

[jay_shark]

On one hand you will have great odds to draw to a flush otf , but you will certainly lose more than 50% of the time if both hands get shown on the river . Moreover , even when you hit two pair or better , it may be unlikely that he will pay you off as much as an aggressive player . It really depends on your implied odds when you hit something good .

[Vinetou]

jayshark, I see you have different view on that topic of calling minreraises than most players. They call with anything like I do. Just generally, with which hands you call a minreraise?

And generally, we can probably assume that a guy who makes a minreraise preflop will underbet the pot on other streets also, so we can probably lose the minimum when we have the worst hand and draw profitably. Am I right?

[jay_shark]

I will usually give them the benefit of having my hand beat so I will usually fold high-low type of cards . If my opponent starts to try this strategy with any two cards , then I will call ALL mini raises if I believe my hand plays better than his .

ie , if I have k-4 and raise otb , then I will fold to a mini raise if I can put my opponent on a king with a better kicker or a medium pocket pair .

I will call/raise with all suited connectors and pocket pairs . In fact , I would rather have 5-4 suited than j-4 suited because you will lose more money when your jack hits than when your 5 hits .

Yes you will lose the minimum when you have the worst hand but on the flipside , you won't win much with your flushes either . You lose less with your bad hands and you win less with your good hands .

Another advantage in folding mini raises with high-low hands is that your opponent may think he can pull this off with more hands and then you can re-pop him preflop once in a while so that he strays away from this play . You can potentially exploit him for trying this move all the time .

[Perestroika]

Jay Shark you make some compelling arguments and I feel like I am going to start folding these kinds of hands. Its obvious that we should call with *some* hands, and also we should be three betting them sometimes as well. I know that this question is vague, but against your average minraise player who does this enough to include QJ+ 77+ in their minraise range, what range should we be 4 betting?

[jay_shark]

[ QUOTE ]
Jay Shark you make some compelling arguments and I feel like I am going to start folding these kinds of hands. Its obvious that we should call with *some* hands, and also we should be three betting them sometimes as well. I know that this question is vague, but against your average minraise player who does this enough to include QJ+ 77+ in their minraise range, what range should we be 4 betting?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would try to apply the gap rule here .I want to know that I will dominate with at least as many hands that he would dominate me with .

ie , he mini re-raises with a-10+ , then I will re-re-raise with a-q since a-q beats a-10 and a-j but loses to only a-k . In this situation , I think it would be incorrect to re-re-raise with a-j since you are dominated more often than not .

[xSCWx]

I'd play this hand the same. I love playing these guys if I'm hitting, hate it if I'm not.