I can only beat myself

DesertCat · #1 09-30-2007, 01:00 PM

CAZ 20-40. Villian is laggy aggressive asian, can't figure out if he's decent post flop or not. He lost a pile of chips raising from early position with K9 vs KT, on KT9K turn. Slow played broadway straight with KQo vs. my AK until raising river.

On this hand I limp after a limper in EP with QsJs. Villian limps on button. Five of us see flop of AsTs7x. Checked to me, and I bet to build the pot size with my big draw. Freakin villain raises to knock out any callers. I call.

Turn Ks. I make a flush. Check, he bets, I raise, he three bets. I don't have my glasses so I check the board to make sure I'm not mistaking a club for a spade. About this time I realize I have a royal (yes I am that slow). I don't want to lose him since a four bet is an obvious flush so I call and check dark to see if I can get a check raise in on the river, hoping the board will pair or that he'll see me as weak and bet again.

I believe I butchered this hand on almost all streets. Lets go through it.

1) Should I three bet flop?
2) Should I four bet turn?
3) Should I have bet river?

HOWMANY · #2 09-30-2007, 01:02 PM

Dear god bet the river if you don't 4bet the turn. I 4bet turn at 20/40 because there is no chance of villain folding a set or two pair UI. Against a nonawful player I call and donk river.

Howard Beale · #3 09-30-2007, 02:16 PM

If villain's laggy enough that you can count on him betting a flop c/r that might get a couple more ppl in for extra bets is something to consider but a flop bet is fine too (I wouldn't 3-bet flop HU). I'd 4-bet the turn because villain likes his hand and (who knows?) he might re-raise. As played bet the river.

Edit:

I forgot to ask the old, standard question to anybody whose made a Royal: Did you win the hand? Hahahaha.....hahaha...haha......ha....... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

drbk2 · #4 09-30-2007, 02:56 PM

I lick my chops when I have a hand like QJs in your spot in AZ. Because when I raise, I'm more than likely going to get a bunch of calls and a pile of chips go in the middle when you are holding the sexiest of all multiway hands. I guess limping isn't so bad either but in those games I just love to create big pots when I'm in there.

Flop: Nothing else you can do. 3 betting the flop is not a good idea, because a lot of times you are setting yourself up to lose 2 bets on the turn if you miss your draw.

Turn: From my 2 months in Arizona or so, the one thing I noticed is never ever ever ever miss a raise on any street if you have the best hand. Just calling to disguise your hand will only cost you bets. You'll jump out of your chair when you see what these guys 5 bet you on the turn with.

River: Just bet.

BigBadBabar · #5 09-30-2007, 10:13 PM

i don't understand the thought process; you have the nuts and he obviously has a strong hand and you want to slow down?

Scary_Tiger · #6 09-30-2007, 10:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i don't understand the thought process; you have the nuts and he obviously has a strong hand and you want to slow down?

[/ QUOTE ]

MitchL · #7 10-01-2007, 03:28 AM

What I dont understand is why you want to give him an escape hatch. If the board pairs, you bet he raises and you get the same amount of bets in or more, but if he has a small flush and another spade peels off or the board pairs than you lose the bet you wouldve gotten on the turn or worse he folds a small flush to your river bet. I guess I dont see the risk/reward being even close here.

blindside · #8 10-01-2007, 04:15 AM

he is absolutely calling any 4bet after he 3bet and there's tons of scare cards a small flush or a straight may not bet at the end... you miss at least 1-4bb by just calling a 3b here...

and with a laggy guy to my left i would go for a c/r...

Nate. · #9 10-01-2007, 12:46 PM

DesertCat--

This is a great example of a case where slowing down is either slightly correct or very incorrect. Don't stop betting and raising.

--Nate

DesertCat · #10 10-01-2007, 01:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
DesertCat--

This is a great example of a case where slowing down is either slightly correct or very incorrect. Don't stop betting and raising.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a great example of my struggle adjusting to the pace of limit. It's an easy decision but I felt rushed and bolloxed it. Yesterday I played 10-150 and made two good laydowns with two pair, but the pace of that game is so slow I didn't feel any pressure, took my time, and thought the hand through. Hopefully as I get more experienced with 20-40 it will help.