Complaint about Israel thread

[bobman0330]

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andy,

Notice that you are implicitly articulating a principle here which is that the morally superior victor in a war (if one is) cannot as a price/punishment/result of winning such a war, force the vanquished to leave a certain territory that has been captured. Such a forced depopulation is not "ethnic cleansing" since that implies killing them (genocide). So I think you have to justify that principle.

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Ethnic cleansing is EXACTLY what Felix was advocating. I think you just don't understand what the term means, as it is much broader than genocide.

I don't think andy really needs to justify his opposition to ethnic cleansing either, as mass deportation is a textbook example of crimes against humanity.

And andy is of course right that Felix's post is thoroughly shameful and appalling.

[BluffTHIS!]

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[ QUOTE ]
andy,

Notice that you are implicitly articulating a principle here which is that the morally superior victor in a war (if one is) cannot as a price/punishment/result of winning such a war, force the vanquished to leave a certain territory that has been captured. Such a forced depopulation is not "ethnic cleansing" since that implies killing them (genocide). So I think you have to justify that principle.

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Ethnic cleansing is EXACTLY what Felix was advocating. I think you just don't understand what the term means, as it is much broader than genocide.

I don't think andy really needs to justify his opposition to ethnic cleansing either, as mass deportation is a textbook example of crimes against humanity.

And andy is of course right that Felix's post is thoroughly shameful and appalling.

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It is nonetheless obvious that "ethnic cleansing" has the connotation of genocide. And precisely because of its emotionally charged nature it shouldn't be casually used when referring to "mass deportation" when such doesn't involve killing or virtual killing (deportation to a desert without supplies e.g.).

[bobman0330]

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It is nonetheless obvious that "ethnic cleansing" has the connotation of genocide. And precisely because of its emotionally charged nature it shouldn't be casually used when referring to "mass deportation" when such doesn't involve killing or virtual killing (deportation to a desert without supplies e.g.).

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The mind boggles. Ethnic cleansing has the connotation of genocide because the people who do it are almost (100%?) invariably racist monsters who don't give a [censored] about the lives of the people they are deporting, and thus end up committing genocide or something close to it.

Even more mind-boggling is the fact that ethnic cleansing is itself a sanitized code word for crimes against humanity or genocide, as the case may be. And now that people have caught on and understand what's really being said, you want to substitute ANOTHER euphemism, "mass deportation."

And then, in a masterstroke of boggling, you complain that people are "casually" using the 100% accurate term "ethnic cleansing" when Felix was talking about the "mere" mass deportation of Israeli Arab citizens. "It's not like we're going to kill them, just render them stateless, take them away from their ancestral homes, and dump them somewhere where they'll maybe find a new life. Oh, yeah, and the IDF will be conducting occasional punitive raids against their new homes."

[BluffTHIS!]

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Even more mind-boggling is the fact that ethnic cleansing is itself a sanitized code word for crimes against humanity

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You are predefining mass exportation which doesn't involve killing as a crime against humanity. The fact that treaties call it so doesn't make it so. And you ignore the issue of whether those inhabitants can lose their rights to live in a certain area by virtue of being the defeated aggressor in a war.

This is the same old [censored] we always see where Israel is not permitted by the Arab terrorist apologists to impose permanent punishments/sanctions on them and where instead you assert it must go back to the status quo. Sweet deal isn't it? You try to rob a bank and get released and get to try again the next day. Obviously this is taking it to a logical extreme, but it illustrates the principle.