Blackwater: Did anyone hear this???

[DblBarrelJ]

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Who else would?

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How about the protectee?

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This response is usually made with the idea that Iraq and US investigators should always be in agreement, as in "Why doesn't Iraq agree they were fired upon?"

However, in this case, the principle can't talk, as it was a structure, not a person.

[bosphorus]

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In some perfect world? Sure. In the real world, no. They probably didn't even see the guard until he stood up yelling at people on the street and waving his rifle around. This isn't hard to believe at all.

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Are you serious? They're suppsoed to protecting somene an they didn;t even pay any attention/register the presence of uniformed armed men at the building across the street? Maybe you're right, but that's incredible negligence.

[bosphorus]

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How much recon do you think security contractors are doing on routine sniper positions on rooftops? This quote shows your misunderstanding. That kind of recon work would be done on an assault type mission, this was merely a security detail.

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Recon? These people were armed men standing in front of the building across the street. You harly need detiled recon for that. Apparently the Blackwater contractors didn't find them too hard to spot once they'd allegedly been fired on.

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However, it's total bull [censored], which is why EVERYONE is using them in Iraq, foreign diplomats, American businessmen, Iraqi leaders, etc. They're so effective, they have yet to lose the first person in Iraq they're hired to protect. They're that good.


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Rubbish, there are dozens of private security firms operating in Iraq. At any rate, that would hardly be an endorsement of their rules of engagement. People who want to be protected in a place like Iraq no odoubt want to be protected at all costs, but that doesn;t make it right. In most places outfits like Blackwater are actually accountable to someone other than their clients for their actions, to even things out a little.

[2/325Falcon]

Chief,

Try reading the WashPo article. Across the street is actually 450 feet away. The guard wasn't on some crappy wrought iron balcony you'd see on an apartment building in the US. There's a 3 foot high wall on the balcony.

[romdom]

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Have you ever thought that maybe the reason many posters here hold the opinions we do could be because we take the time to research topics from a perspective of multiple sources and POVs, where as you seem to accept everything your nightly news feeds you without ever questioning any of it?

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Could you mention, give the URL of, the sites you tend to see as credible?

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no, the main reason "people like you" mostly post on these topics is because people who are actually knowledgeable know it's a lost cause to argue with people who are stonecold brainwashed and don't even know it.

[mrick]

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Blackwater Investigation Unjust

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Yeah, right... From your link :

"Applying US standards investigating events in an unknown country currently by the name of Iraq where law and order is non-existent makes any investigation of Blackwater wholly unfair and unjust."

In other words, this guy is saying that Blackwater should be investigated under no law whatsoever, or better yet ..not be investigated at all!

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Trigger-Happy Cowboys save Polish ambassador

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Cliff notes: the Polish ambassador's convoy is ambushed, the Polish bodyguards return fire and fight it out, one Polish bodyguard is actually killed, ambassador is saved, event is over. Then, Blackwater helicopters are called transport everyone away. As your link says, "Blackwater was not involved in protecting the Polish convoy." So the title of the article is misleading. What was your point again?

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Media Intentionally Paints Negative Portrait Of Security Firm

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Basically, this National Review guy is arguing that Blackwater are patriots and should be left alone! Sample quote : "...the antiwar Left, most vocally supported by liberal Democrats in the House and Senate, wanted to score political points, [so] they constantly accused Blackwater of being unaccountable and above the law."

He denies that Blackwater are above the law!!? Here's the relevant text from the decree signed 6/27/04 by L. Paul Bremer, Administrator, Coalition Provisional Authority, Iraq, giving folks like the Blackwater gangsters full immunity :

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Section 4
Contractors
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2) Contractors shall not be subject to Iraqi laws or regulations in matters relating to the terms and conditions of their Contracts, including licensing and registering employees, businesses and corporations; provided, however, that Contractors shall comply with such applicable licensing and registration laws and regulations if engaging in business or transactions in Iraq other than Contracts. Notwithstanding any provisions in this Order, Private Security Companies and their employees operating in Iraq must comply with all CPA Orders, Regulations, Memoranda, and any implementing instructions or regulations governing the existence and activities of Private Security Companies in Iraq, including registration and licensing of weapons and firearms.
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3) Contractors shall be immune from Iraqi legal process with respect to acts performed by them pursuant to the terms and conditions of a Contract or any sub-contract thereto.

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The decree is still in force.

[MidGe]

Great post, well researched and quoted, mrick.

Be ready for some flack from those are trying to suppress this information and replace it with the PR stuff they get from Blackwater! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DblBarrelJ]

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Cliff notes: the Polish ambassador's convoy is ambushed, the Polish bodyguards return fire and fight it out, one Polish bodyguard is actually killed, ambassador is saved, event is over. Then, Blackwater helicopters are called transport everyone away. As your link says, "Blackwater was not involved in protecting the Polish convoy." So the title of the article is misleading. What was your point again?

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That Blackwater was called in and completed the mission after the Polish bodyguards failed miserably.


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Basically, this National Review guy is arguing that Blackwater are patriots and should be left alone! Sample quote : "...the antiwar Left, most vocally supported by liberal Democrats in the House and Senate, wanted to score political points, [so] they constantly accused Blackwater of being unaccountable and above the law."

He denies that Blackwater are above the law!!?

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No, he doesn't. Even Prince has publicly stated that Blackwater agents shouldn't be above the law. And if they're above the law, why is the FBI investigating them presently?

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Here's the relevant text from the decree signed 6/27/04 by L. Paul Bremer, Administrator, Coalition Provisional Authority, Iraq, giving folks like the Blackwater gangsters full immunity :

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Section 4
Contractors
...
2) Contractors shall not be subject to Iraqi laws or regulations in matters relating to the terms and conditions of their Contracts, including licensing and registering employees, businesses and corporations; provided, however, that Contractors shall comply with such applicable licensing and registration laws and regulations if engaging in business or transactions in Iraq other than Contracts. Notwithstanding any provisions in this Order, Private Security Companies and their employees operating in Iraq must comply with all CPA Orders, Regulations, Memoranda, and any implementing instructions or regulations governing the existence and activities of Private Security Companies in Iraq, including registration and licensing of weapons and firearms.
...
3) Contractors shall be immune from Iraqi legal process with respect to acts performed by them pursuant to the terms and conditions of a Contract or any sub-contract thereto.

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The decree is still in force.

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I highlighted the important parts. To answer my own question, so you don't have to make up BS, they are not, nor have they ever been, immune from US law. Iraqi law, yes. US law, no.

[MidGe]

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I highlighted the important parts. To answer my own question, so you don't have to make up BS, they are not, nor have they ever been, immune from US law. Iraqi law, yes. US law, no.

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So not immune to US law, but they are immune to the sovereign country's laws the US is supposedly liberating??? Are you for real?

[tame_deuces]

This isn't the big problem you make it out to be Midge.

However,

While this system seems to be working for ordinary military personnel, in that the sense that things get investigated and transgressors punished by their own parent nation's laws(its not perfect, but things rarely are) there have been some unfortunate specific incidents with immunity granted to Blackwater personnel.

Like I have said before I'm in not in the anti or pro camp, I am however always of the opinion that seemingly weird practices should be questioned. And these qualifiy.