KK - Basics on Paired Board - 3/6 FTP

[jrbick]

Only a few orbits in at this table. Villain is 33/12/1.3 27 wtsd. I have no major history with villain. I am playing aggressively and have not shown down a hand yet.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $3/$6
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $488.65
UTG+1: $85.25
CO: $789.90
Hero: $591
SB: $228
BB: $459.15

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $33</font>, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($81, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks. (Is this ok? Pot control, induce bluffs, etc.? Should I take the 2tone more seriously? Someone sweating was asking about that)

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($81, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $35</font>, Hero calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($151, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $151</font>, Hero...


Is the river a standard call given how I've played flop/turn? My thoughts are that all bluffs give up by now from a player like this with the betting like this (small on turn, big on river). Yay or nay?

[rwperu34]

I doubt this type of player will be bluffing enough (or ever) for a call to be worthwhile.

I don't mind a flop lead. You will get called by plenty of smaller pairs as well draws, so there is plenty of value.

[Parlay Slow]

Make sure you call the river

[jrbick]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind a flop lead. You will get called by plenty of smaller pairs as well draws, so there is plenty of value.

[/ QUOTE ]


I've thought about that as well. Basically, does make the rest of the hand more complicated? I feel like it does but trying to put my finger on it still. By checking flop I feel like we can call turn and river pretty much always (although I thought twice given his bet sizes, but that is basically overthinking the hand imo). If we bet flop, get called, ch turn, and we get a club on river or a PSB on a blank, what are we going to do?

[rwperu34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind a flop lead. You will get called by plenty of smaller pairs as well draws, so there is plenty of value.

[/ QUOTE ]


I've thought about that as well. Basically, does make the rest of the hand more complicated? I feel like it does but trying to put my finger on it still. By checking flop I feel like we can call turn and river pretty much always (although I thought twice given his bet sizes, but that is basically overthinking the hand imo). If we bet flop, get called, ch turn, and we get a club on river or a PSB on a blank, what are we going to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel your pain in the turn check PSB on river situation, although in this particular game, against an unknown with a 1.3 AF, I fell very comfortable folding anything less than AQ to a PSB regardless of how we play.

I also feel like the 1.3 AF doesn't put enough money in the pot on future streets to make up for the free shots we're giving him at flushes, aces, or even two outers. Maybe we can get a call with 88 when the turn card comes small, but I think I get a flop call with that more often than not.

[KRANTZ]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no major history with villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is why i think there's no point in taking a non-standard line in these situations (regardless of the flop being rainbow or with a flush draw). for one, you have no read on his bluffing tendencies, and secondly, you have no reason to try to [censored] with his hand-reading ability. i start taking these lines in HU matches or after i've played a ton of hands with a particular opponent.

what i'm getting at is that i think you're giving up a little bit both ways by making this play without gathering more information.

[jrbick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have no major history with villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is why i think there's no point in taking a non-standard line in these situations (regardless of the flop being rainbow or with a flush draw). for one, you have no read on his bluffing tendencies, and secondly, you have no reason to try to [censored] with his hand-reading ability. i start taking these lines in HU matches or after i've played a ton of hands with a particular opponent.

what i'm getting at is that i think you're giving up a little bit both ways by making this play without gathering more information.

[/ QUOTE ]


Wow great point here. Thanks J. So what would you do in the situations I explained:

[ QUOTE ]
If we bet flop, get called, ch turn, and we get a club on river or a PSB on a blank, what are we going to do?

[/ QUOTE ]


What you've said probably explains why I was uncomfortable calling the river.

[KRANTZ]

i'd be calling any blank, and if it were a club, you should probably be folding to most ABC players and calling as they stray closer to the kingdom of the donkeys (but against some of these donkey guys i would mix up betting and checking the turn)

[hasugopher]

Bet the flop the large majority of the time if you like money. Think of all the times where UTG will call your bet here with 77 when you have AK...

[cts]

No one folds a pair on a QQ5 board and people don't usually limp/call UTG with queens. I'm betting the flop and prepared to go to felttown, hopefully via pot pot shove.