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  #21  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:30 PM
adanthar adanthar is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

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serge the more I think about him he may even fold AK/JJ to a shove from jon in this spot and jon told me he was playing like 60/40 and getting laggier on this bubble. So basically this could become a +EV shove not for relative strength but just how much they fold as well as those behind us only calling with QQ+ or even KK+ fearing they are either fliping or behind with QQ.

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well if he folds AK/JJ it's definitely a snap shove...
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:36 PM
WarDekar WarDekar is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

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serge the more I think about him he may even fold AK/JJ to a shove from jon in this spot and jon told me he was playing like 60/40 and getting laggier on this bubble. So basically this could become a +EV shove not for relative strength but just how much they fold as well as those behind us only calling with QQ+ or even KK+ fearing they are either fliping or behind with QQ.

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well if he folds AK/JJ it's definitely a snap shove...

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Uhhh he's not?
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  #23  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:38 PM
A_Junglen A_Junglen is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

AIPF

Looks like AK

Get called by 88

Profit
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  #24  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:44 PM
FatalError FatalError is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
serge the more I think about him he may even fold AK/JJ to a shove from jon in this spot and jon told me he was playing like 60/40 and getting laggier on this bubble. So basically this could become a +EV shove not for relative strength but just how much they fold as well as those behind us only calling with QQ+ or even KK+ fearing they are either fliping or behind with QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

well if he folds AK/JJ it's definitely a snap shove...

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Uhhh he's not?

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i just 3 bet shoved him last hand, he might fold JJ, but not AK
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  #25  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:53 PM
WarDekar WarDekar is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

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well if he folds AK/JJ it's definitely a snap shove...

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Uhhh he's not?

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i just 3 bet shoved him last hand, he might fold JJ, but not AK

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I dunno, if I'm him (I'm not) there's no F-ing way I'm folding JJ to a shove here.

Would any of you? That's a little ridiculous IMO
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  #26  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:18 PM
IWEARGOGGLES IWEARGOGGLES is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

Shoving > 3-betting > calling > folding.
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  #27  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:21 PM
adanthar adanthar is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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well if he folds AK/JJ it's definitely a snap shove...

[/ QUOTE ]


Uhhh he's not?

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i just 3 bet shoved him last hand, he might fold JJ, but not AK

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I dunno, if I'm him (I'm not) there's no F-ing way I'm folding JJ to a shove here.

Would any of you? That's a little ridiculous IMO

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I never would but I'm not a live pro who waits for better spots etc. so the statement in itself isn't totally outrageous.

all I mean is, if shoving lets him play exactly perfectly I think calling is better/if he folds so much as 1 better hand I think shoving is plainly the best option because he'll never have enough combos of the nuts to make anything else work.
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  #28  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:35 PM
BKiCe BKiCe is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

given the 99 hand from the sb where he completed and then reraised hero's bb raise, isn't three betting to like 9.5k (giving him room to shove his ATC) and snap calling his shove significantly better than outright shoving?
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  #29  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:42 PM
TheNewf TheNewf is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

I just shove, I think it gets less respect here given history and avoids stupid flop scenarios. edit: he doesn't understand restealing theory probably and just sees this as another all-in from the crazy internet kid, even though for 30xBB you obv have a hand
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  #30  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:55 PM
FatalError FatalError is offline
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Default RESULTS

i shoved, BB woke up with KK gg

I hated shoving on the ride home but i'm ok with it now, i do think there is a lot of merit to flatting but maybe not against toto who honestly plays very well postflop
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