Neo-Conservatism and its Roots in Warfare State Propaganda

[Copernicus]

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copernicus,

There are no available sources in the known world that do not have an appreciable agenda.

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"Appreciable" is subjective. There are sources that you can be reasonably comfortable will not intentionally lie, distort or obfuscate to make their point. None of the websites at issue in this post, nor Chomsky fall into that category. I can't comment on the other author mentioned, but if he has written books with Chomsky, he is likely to be more of the same.

JK, cliff notes of what?

[John Kilduff]

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copernicus,

There are no available sources in the known world that do not have an appreciable agenda.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Appreciable" is subjective. There are sources that you can be reasonably comfortable will not intentionally lie, distort or obfuscate to make their point. None of the websites at issue in this post, nor Chomsky fall into that category. I can't comment on the other author mentioned, but if he has written books with Chomsky, he is likely to be more of the same.

JK, cliff notes of what?

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The OP might be kind enough offer you Cliff Notes (if he hasn't done so already) so you wouldn't have to wade through 30 yards [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
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copernicus,

There are no available sources in the known world that do not have an appreciable agenda.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Appreciable" is subjective. There are sources that you can be reasonably comfortable will not intentionally lie, distort or obfuscate to make their point. None of the websites at issue in this post, nor Chomsky fall into that category. I can't comment on the other author mentioned, but if he has written books with Chomsky, he is likely to be more of the same.

JK, cliff notes of what?

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The OP might offer you Cliff Notes (so you wouldn't have to wade through 30 yards [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ).

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ahhhh. optime quidem

[yukoncpa]

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"How convenient for the neo-conservatives that 9/11 came along"

I believe that the war in Iraq would have occurred without 9/11 and that 9/11 was an excuse, not the reason, for the war.
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Agreed

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Hi, I'm sure I'm ouside the scope of the op ( which I enjoyed reading), but why are you each (Borodog and Andy) agreeing on this? I'm confused ( not joking ) why did the neo-cons want to go to war in Iraq and why was this a done deal even before 9-11? What was to be gained? General warmongering against communists was something I gleaned from the op, but I don't understand this Iraq deal at all.

Also, why is my statement not outside of ya'alls quotes. These quote tags are a bit of a mystery, but I'll solve it later when I'm more sober.

[Zeno]

Good post. I recalled about Andrew Jackson and his lust for Florida after I posted and thought, "I bet he will catch that one". You did.

I disagree that men, in general, are rational beings and submit that en masse or collectively as interacting separate groups and tribes, or individually, he can act quite mad and believe a host of imbecilic notions. See for example Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay or The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer. Since we disagree on so fundamental an issue we are at loggerheads. The rest is silence.

I take it from your comment "name one" that it is your contention that all people in power have nothing but self-serving interests and act on that principle alone. Correct me if I am wrong in this assumption.

The abuse of power, whether by state or private institutions all the way down to the intentional and/or unintentional abuse of power a father can hold over his children is well known and quite common and there is no known workable cure. For example Confucius thought ritual would work (among other concepts), but his tenants where misunderstood and/or abused by successive generations and formulated into orthodoxy, which deadens and destroys.

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Blah blah blah. The world is crystal clear when you bother to learn to look through the right lenses.


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These certainly are not the golden lenses of Joseph Smith - So which lenses are they?

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War is the health of the state

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And it gives people something to do with their lives that they believe gives life some meaning. Eminently useful indeed.

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They still seem like apologies and excuses to me.

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Perhaps purely from self-interest?

Beware of orthodoxy.

-Zeno