We win (AP Scandal v. 27)

[gumpzilla]

I think I find all of the people saying "If only Absolute comes clean on this I would happily play there again" possibly more depressing than the initial cheating in the first place.

It seems that those with the behind-the-scenes evidence agree there's a cover up. If so, then Absolute has shown themselves to be totally dishonest. Why is there any reason to trust them in the future? Is there anyway to interpret going back to play at Absolute other than "I don't care what kind of thieves you've shown yourself to be, as long as you bring me the fish?" And if nobody stops playing there, what is the disincentive for any room to cheat? If you don't lose your license or your patrons, then it's practically a freeroll.

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GRAYCAT - Crushed High stakes limit games on Absolute. Chip dumped large amounts to SUPERCARDM55. GREYCAT won approx. $28,000 in high stakes limit games on Absoulte.

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The number is much bigger than $28,000 for GREYCAT.

[adanthar]

Potslammer is just a 2+2 spammer account and is not actually an account on AP.

Re: KGC - You guys should understand what the KGC is. They essentially have three relevant businesses/hats: Absolute/UB [the upper management is very intimately connected with Chief Norton], their formerly toothless audit group that audits everyone but is now very quickly growing a spine (employing Gaming Associates to audit AP), and a big server farm that happens to host Stars and a bunch of other places. Being located on the server farm in and of itself doesn't mean a site did anything wrong, because that farm may be the most convenient place to run a site from in the world. Further, at this point, I have reason to believe that there are so many alarm bells going off at KGC that they won't be asleep at the switch again for a very long time - they didn't like this little surprise any more than we did, since it's a nasty hit to all their core businesses.

In other words, Stars etc. have nothing to do with this, but will now be closely scrutinized by people with a lot more at stake, anyhow.

[ChrisV]

Trying to cover it up at first is a natural reaction. It's what i'd do if I was in charge. You can't seriously hold companies to a standard of immediately admitting something which is damaging to them.

However, when damning evidence is compiled, I do expect companies to come clean. If Absolute come completely clean here, I'd be willing to forgive and forget. If they try some half assed story on, I'm going to get even angrier.

[Cruzincat]

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I think I find all of the people saying "If only Absolute comes clean on this I would happily play there again" possibly more depressing than the initial cheating in the first place.

It seems that those with the behind-the-scenes evidence agree there's a cover up. If so, then Absolute has shown themselves to be totally dishonest. Why is there any reason to trust them in the future? Is there anyway to interpret going back to play at Absolute other than "I don't care what kind of thieves you've shown yourself to be, as long as you bring me the fish?" And if nobody stops playing there, what is the disincentive for any room to cheat? If you don't lose your license or your patrons, then it's practically a freeroll.

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OTOH if AP doesn't think there is a future if they come clean, what is their incentive to do so?

[casaubon]

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Any relationship between the KGC and AP is obviously completely incestuous.

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absolute poker has lost the trust and respect of the poker community. the way i see it, by extension, so has the KGC. (they're owned by the same guy!)

the KGC seemed shady to me even before all of this. but now, tbh, i'm wary of any poker site that is associated with the KGC.

the thing is, that's pretty much EVERY SITE. ugh.

sadly, that includes the site that is most trusted and respected on 2p2. everyone seems to believe that the people running poker stars are honest and professional. but i wonder, if that's the case, why would they choose to associate themselves with an organization as sketchy as the KGC? i've seen people in these threads expressing a "good thing poker stars isn't like absolute" sentiment. i'd like to share in that, but boy, i really wish they had no connection to the KGC.

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Is there anyone in the history of online poker who said "Oh, well, this site is licensed by the KGC. I can obviously trust them."

Site reputations are based on the sites themselves, not the sham licensing commissions. Of course the most popular licensing groups is also the most lax (and the one with the biggest server farm too).

That doesn't make sites corrupt for working with them.

[gumpzilla]

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Trying to cover it up at first is a natural reaction. It's what i'd do if I was in charge. You can't seriously hold companies to a standard of immediately admitting something which is damaging to them.

However, when damning evidence is compiled, I do expect companies to come clean.

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Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't Absolute already get one shot under these circumstances and whiff? Plenty of the evidence was already presented when they made their first investigation, and they still said "Nope, nothing to see here." I would find this type of reaction less annoying if there weren't scads of other rooms to choose from.

EDIT:

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OTOH if AP doesn't think there is a future if they come clean, what is their incentive to do so?

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I've been assuming that this is the reason a lot of people have been saying they'd go back there; they don't necessarily really mean it, they just want to set a tone.

[Cruzincat]

[quote
Site reputations are based on the sites themselves, not the sham licensing commissions. Of course the most popular licensing groups is also the most lax (and the one with the biggest server farm too).

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Are there other "licensing" sites available for poker rooms to use for credibility? I am talking about reliable firms that would not fear being associated with (ugh, dare I say it) the online poker industry?

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Nat,

Beers/dinner on me whenever in ATL LMK

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Yeah, you might want to do some research before you promise something like this "whenever." Not that it's not a great gesture, just that it could get rather expensive.

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a) there isnt a restaurant in ATL i cant afford to pay for dinner at comfortably

b) i saide WHENever not WHEREever

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He lives in Atlanta. WHENever is everyday. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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heh i know that i meant like whenever is convenient for him to go not like every time he's hungry

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Damn.

Thanks for the offer, we'll have to work this out sometime. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ammbo]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't STEAMROLLER (verified to be Scott Tom's account) dump chips to another account? If the person at the helm of these accounts was upper-upper management, why would they need to chip dump the money? The person would have been able to wire it out at will. It seems odd to me. The chip dumping points more toward the idea that Scott Tom's account was among the accounts being commandeered rather than the one doing the commandeering. Of course, this could have been tracks-covering.

I am just speculating and trying to present other possible explanations than AP is evil all the way.