10/20 multiway AA

[Dale Dough]

6 max. I open for 70, get 4 callers.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Pot 280

Both blinds check, I bet 280, guy behind me (2600, I cover) calls. Blinds fold.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Pot 840

I CRAI (he potted it) and lose to 22. CRAIing home to mommy.. ahahah..ahah.. ok not funny.

I know this [censored] is basic.. it's been happening to me since I played small stakes. No read on the guy, other than that he's the same villain from my other hand, where he raised his set on a dry A high board. Does this even change mattes?

Oh also I didn't have a spade, for those who care.

[wdead]

i would just bet the turn again and see what he does

[CHAx]

There are a couple of possible ways in which your opponents are exploiting you.

1) it looks like you are willing to payoff overpairs against anything.
2) it appears that your opponents know you do not bluff enough because they probably feel comfortable laying down lots of mediocre hands (anything you beat when you push/lead). I think 22 was laying down any flop he missed when you C-bet here.
3) I think it is possible that you do not apply enough pressure with hands that are losing but might fold a weak opponent.
4) In a multi-way pot I think you need to slow down because its clear that you don't know where you stand AND don't respect your opponents bets.
5) Your opponents appear to be able to put you on over pairs. Make them think you are capable of folding over pairs so that they DO try and bluff you off of an overpair.



I could be way off w/ regards to YOUR play; but these are common mistakes I see other players making when they are stacking off w/ over pairs.

[Dale Dough]

wdead,

what if he a) calls b) raises all in?

Chax,

1) I didn't do that at full ring, but find it difficult NOT to pay off since I play a lot of crap hands as well. That said, I don't CRAI turn offering him better than 2 to 1. I assumed he had a draw that he'd likely bet again, or was floating me. If this is also in response to some of my other posts, please elaborate.

2) It's fourhanded on the flop ffs. How can he expect me to have a high enough bluffing freq that calling with 22 is correct - unless he's floating?

3) Hm depends on the hands.. if it has showdown value, I tend to try to play a smaller pot.

4) OK.. bet less than pot on the flop? C/F the turn? That WOULD make floating or semi-floating with a draw correct.. what should I do, wait for TT in this spot?

5) Hm good point. I may need to read up on the theory. The idea is to assign myself a calling probability, right?

If you want, please elaborate on the points I still don't seem to understand. Thanks for the reply, this is the kind of thing I was looking for. I want to either know I played the hand well or know where the problem is. Because it did feel like I somehow [censored] up.

[creedofhubris]

Your line is good vs tricky guys who float. Since they'll fire the turn with nothing if checked to, the CRAI traps the most money from them. Sometimes the tricky guy has you beat, c'est la vie, it's still a good play.

CRAI doesn't work so good against passive guys, because they'll just check behind with weak hands and draws (some of which they would've called a pot bet with). And they'll bet their monsters.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]


2) It's fourhanded on the flop ffs. How can he expect me to have a high enough bluffing freq that calling with 22 is correct - unless he's floating?

[/ QUOTE ]

In the hand as you posted it, he flops bottom set of 222, so he doesn't seem to be floating?

[wdead]

If he calls, i see the river and make an action.
If he raises all in, I call if he is aggro and fold if he is passive. If he is passive, I lead turn. If he is aggro, then I like a turn c/r. Which is this villain?

[Ryno]

The guy behind you is more likely to have a set or draw (and not something like 99) given the 2 opponents behind him. I'd rather CRAI on the turn in a headsup situation.

[Dale Dough]

creed,

I meant it in resonse to Chax' point that opponents would play the 22 perfectly, laying it down without a set.

wdead,

I hope I'm not annoying you, but what would the river change? C/F if the flush gets there? What else? I mean, we're OOP, so if he calls our action can't depend on anything else he does.

Villain is Viffer btw. Only read I have is that he sat with 1300 before, but don't remember if he just lost a hand or actually sat with only that.

[CHAx]

[ QUOTE ]
wdead,

what if he a) calls b) raises all in?

Chax,

1) I didn't do that at full ring, but find it difficult NOT to pay off since I play a lot of crap hands as well. That said, I don't CRAI turn offering him better than 2 to 1. I assumed he had a draw that he'd likely bet again, or was floating me. If this is also in response to some of my other posts, please elaborate.

2) It's fourhanded on the flop ffs. How can he expect me to have a high enough bluffing freq that calling with 22 is correct - unless he's floating?

3) Hm depends on the hands.. if it has showdown value, I tend to try to play a smaller pot.

4) OK.. bet less than pot on the flop? C/F the turn? That WOULD make floating or semi-floating with a draw correct.. what should I do, wait for TT in this spot?

5) Hm good point. I may need to read up on the theory. The idea is to assign myself a calling probability, right?

If you want, please elaborate on the points I still don't seem to understand. Thanks for the reply, this is the kind of thing I was looking for. I want to either know I played the hand well or know where the problem is. Because it did feel like I somehow [censored] up.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) does not sound like the issue based upon your response.
2) Well is it impossible that you bet a draw here? -- Where floating 22 unimproved is OK? My guess is he never floats 22 unimproved here. So I wonder if you ever C-bet air into the field to get a better feel for your opponents? I just think your opponents are calling to hit big, folding when they dont make big hands. This leaves you fold equity on the flops, even multi-way. This ties into my number 3 question. They are related. Furthermore, I agree leading is best -- fold to a raise here (minus a read). Now you are stuck 5-600 instead of 2k+.
4) And yes you are waiting to overset him; PLUS push him off mediocre hands in the future for small pots and no showdown. 3/4 pot flop, 2/3 turn. fold to raise. Against most players taking a stand with an overpair is dangerous --as always, minus a read.

5) If your opponents aren't showdown monkeys, then make them pay when they go searching for the near nuts every hand (you just don't see this is in 6max really- BUT when pots become multi-way I think you have more fold equity then you think because opponents go NUT-HUNTING). Fold them off that mid-pair. Value bet 2nd pair on the turn if the villains start calling lighter as a response to your increased C-bet bluffing.


I am sorry my posts aren't as elaborate as they should be. I am just giving you ideas for how to adjust to different playing styles and I think your CRAI is only good against a very specific type of loose-bluffing-floating player.