Play a Hand With the Masters Results and Panel Comments

[m1illion]

[ QUOTE ]

One of the points of checking the flop was to keep the pot size small in an unclear situation, which is generally a good tournament strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't a bet have cleared that up a bit for you?
[ QUOTE ]

I really hate this idea of 'how could you risk your tournament on AJs' or 'how could you go broke with top pair' or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't clear enough on this AJs in this situation is not a hand I go for broke.

[m1illion]

As for trusting my instincts and reads, that's what I did!
My instincts told me I was holding a loser and to get out with all due speed.

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
As for trusting my instincts and reads, that's what I did!
My instincts told me I was holding a loser and to get out with all due speed.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not a very pleasant person.

[grandgnu]

Well, unlike the masters, I had optioned to limp with position with the A/J suited. Yes, most times I'm going to raise. But it's early in the tournament, and I wouldn't mind the opportunity to hit a strong flop that is disguised by my lack of a pre-flop raise.

But, given the way the hand actually played out, here is what I recommended:

FLOP: It's been checked to you. You were the agressor pre-flop and we still don't have any information about our opponents hands. If we hit an Ace or Jack on the turn, it may be no good (potential for someone hitting a straight or having a dominating Ace)

As such, I advocated a continuation bet of 1,000-1,200. This should provide us with an opportunity to pick up the pot right now. And if we're called or raised, we gain valuable information and can avoid going broke on this hand.

TURN: Since we wound up actually checking, I smooth-call (after thinking for a bit) the CO's bet. I have a ton of outs, but don't need to committ half my chips on a draw with one card to come. If I hit the river, sweet, I might make some money (since the flush draw wasn't present on the flop). And if I don't hit, I still have plenty of chips for this level.

RIVER: Well, the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] didn't help us, but it probably didn't help the CO either. He bet out and then called our raise. If he had K/J he would've re-raised with the possible flush draw out.

He's also checked the river to us, and as a "tight" player, would likely value-bet if he had a strong hand. I don't know what he has, but I know he's not fully confident in the strength of his hand. There's a lot of chips in the pot now, unfortunately, and the only way I can win them is to push. I believe the CO will fold to the push, since he doesn't seem too strong.

For those who don't care for risk as much, check it down and live to fight another day.

[MLG]

I thought the excercise was fantastic. I didnt participate because I remembered talking about this hand with Soss and didnt want to taint the debate with my possibly results oriented thinking. At the time, I agreed with Soss's raise on the turn, the debate persuaded me that a call is probably better. As for the format, I'm torn. I like the idea of discussing it street by street, decision by decision, at the same time though Strassa is right that the big picture of the hand can get lost. Here's my solution, while the discussion should progress street by street, the debate on each street (both by the panelists and by the madding crowd) should include plans for playing the turn. For example, on this hand, an advocate of checking the flop should include his turn (and maybe even river) contingencies for how he will act if he picks up a draw, or blanks, or pairs, or whatever. That way, you are focusing on relating a decision on a specific street to the big picture. Just a thought.

[m1illion]

[ QUOTE ]


You're not a very pleasant person.

[/ QUOTE ]

when in rome...

[locutus2002]

Thank you Lloyd!

I especially enjoyed seeing how clearly the expert panel analyzed the situation. I personally agree with Strassa, but I think the analysis is illuminating and shows the different possibilities. I look forward to the next one.

I wanted to add that I think CO played the turn poorly and should have pushed against hero's meager reraise. If he's going to play the hand its not likely to get better for him, and its more credible for him to be holding the KJ.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All in all I just think this hand was mismanaged. I think that not betting the flop was a nonrecoverable error.
The overall strategy though was the real disaster. Third level of a 10k buy in and we're risking our tournament on AJs? Really? Good luck with that approach. Argue all day whether or not a push v 5k makes a difference, it is a moot point. The fact that you're at that much risk with the worst of it, that early and it is all your own doing is horrible imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the points of checking the flop was to keep the pot size small in an unclear situation, which is generally a good tournament strategy. Those who ended up with all their chips in the middle didn't exactly follow through on that strategy, but the concept was valid.

I really hate this idea of 'how could you risk your tournament on AJs' or 'how could you go broke with top pair' or whatever. Yeah, after the fact, you may not feel as good about yourself as if you had gone out with AA. But your favorable situations do not always show up on the doorstep complete with gift wrap; you have to take them as they come. And if you have a chance to make some money with AJs, then you should. There is no point at which you should say 'well, betting is the +EV play, but I'm not allowed to risk any more chips with AJs, so I have to fold.'

[/ QUOTE ]


I wonder how the villian would feel if you asked him "How could you risk so many chips with just 2nd pair?"

[CardSharpCook]

Curtains, glad to see you posting in MTT again. Seems like you've been away for a while.

[curtains]

I never really posted much in this forum, but ok its fun here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Going to start playing MTTs nonstop in about 2 weeks. Bascially I've played maybe one per month for the past 4-6 months, so it should be refreshing.