Interesting Hand (NLSNG)

dboy23 · #1 04-29-2007, 02:51 PM

This hand just happened, and is one of my favorite played hands of all time. That is, of hands I have been involved in.

I will explain my street by street thoughts in blue.

But first for the initial reads on this player. He was very aggressive postflop. He bet hard when he hit things. He bet at weakness. He could be a great player, but right now his game is a bit too aggressive, and he can't ratchet it down when he needs to.

I adjusted to him, but he didn't recognize that I did that.

He also didn't like to give up ever against my aggression. He knew I was also aggressive, but I had been doing a ton of bet/folding to him.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero (t1055)
BB (t1945)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t90, BB calls t60.

preflop this raise is borderline. On one hand I am probably not taking the pot down postflop unless I hit a hand. On the other, if I limp, he will probably raise. I decided that I could either see the flop for 90 chips and most likely have it checked to me giving me the option to take a free card, or check, call a raise and have to face a cbet on the flop. I choose to raise myself.

I guess I could fold here but that seems far too weak. If I am folding hands like this I am probably folding way too many hands.

Flop: (t180) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t90, BB calls t90.

I cbet my standard cbet, expecting a raise or call, and maybe very rarely a fold. My hand is most likely good.

Turn: (t360) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

ok so he didn't donk, and I don't really want to get raised here with the king on board. So I check behind. I also hope that checking behind will induce a river bet for me to call.

River: (t360) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t90, BB raises to t1765, Hero calls t785 (All-In).

Final Pot: t3000

Ah the river. He checks again, alas, no bluff for me to snap off. Now it is time to think about whether or not to value bet.

Because he is so aggressive, but hasn't shown much aggressiveness in this hand, I don't think he has much, so I decided to try to induce a bluff raise.

I bet small, 90. Most players would simply call this with good odds on their mediocre hands. Well not this guy. He knows that I don't get married to the pot, because he has raised me allin several times throughout the match with success.

After the allin raise, I stopped to think. Did I just ruin my hand by not taking the free showdown? What could he have here? He hasn't slowplayed me yet, so if he had something good, certainly he would have raised me, check raised me, or donked into me earlier in the hand.

If he had a king he would have value bet this river fearing that I would probably check behind.

If he had a 3 he probably would have raised a smaller ammount that I would call with more hands.

He could have a Q, but if he does we split unless he has AQ. AQ is simply not possible with the non aggro line he took. I would have been reraised pf, or c/red on the flop.

As for other queens, I think he probably would have donked the turn as a feeler.

So while I don't really know what he has, it doesn't matter. He likely doesn't have a K, 3, or monster. His allin bet certainly doesn't scream, "I want a call here". So that is why I called.

So what do you guys think?

dboy23 · #2 04-29-2007, 03:05 PM

obv you are just trying to justify being a calling station OP. HU 4 rollz?

cwar · #3 04-29-2007, 03:22 PM

Pretty standard hand up until the river, I think you should be cbetting closer to 2/3-3/4 pot as a standard at lower levels and not 1/2 pot especially vs a guy who will float you a lot. Obviously the river is where it gets really interesting, the real problem I see is that we dont know what he called the flop with that doesnt have you beat here. Furthermore I dont think you can read much into the fact that he c/raised allin instead of raising a smaller amount, he knows he looks aggressive so if he has a hand he is just as likely to stick in it as without.

Anyways back to the flop float, there really isnt a whole lot for him to be calling here with that would bluff the river, I think we can agree that him turning an 8 into a bluff here is unlikely, same thing with a Q other than KQ. The only hands that make sense to me for him to bluff with are JT,J9,T9,Ax. The other problem is that his line makes a lot of sense for KQ and 3x hands. One more thing that makes me think he didnt float the flop is that if your going to float OOP (speaking about intelligent players) the plan is general to lead the river if the button checks behind on the turn with the gutshot hands. So this leaves only Ax hands that would bluff like this. The good thing about this is that your hand looks exactly like what it is and he probably believes he can push you off this type of Qx or 8x hand. All in all your not getting great odds and if you really think he is a good player I think its a clear fold, however if you think its possible hes stuck in hyper aggro mode and a bit of a donk floating very widely here I can clearly understand your call.

cwar · #4 04-29-2007, 03:22 PM

Lol dboy having conversations with yourself?

dboy23 · #5 04-29-2007, 03:26 PM

as for the flop, I think that against this villian he calls 120 as much as 90 so that was probably a mistake. A small one though.

dboy23 · #6 04-29-2007, 03:28 PM

also, why wouldnt this be an 8 or a Q? he might be thinking he can blow me off a K or Q.

cwar · #7 04-29-2007, 03:44 PM

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as for the flop, I think that against this villian he calls 120 as much as 90 so that was probably a mistake. A small one though.

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I agree its a small mistake in the hand but for an overall strategy I think this is a very important adjustment. Most of the competition we face in HU sngs is not a weak tight type which what the 1/2 pot bet works best against so my comment in general.
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also, why wouldnt this be an 8 or a Q? he might be thinking he can blow me off a K or Q.

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If hes doing this with a Q hes a donk straight up and your read is way off, remember you said he was very aggressive with hands so it makes it very unlikely that he got to the river with a Q like this, furthermore hes getting like 5:1 on a call so has absolutely no reason to bluff with a Q here. An 8 makes a lot of sense but I dont think he turns an 8 into a bluff every time especially given the fact that hes getting 5:1 and he knows hes aggressive so I think its less likely he will try and blow you off a K (stupid too if he does going against your talented read). On average we have two hands that make some sense as bluffs Ax and 8x but may not try this bluff every time and two hands that make a ton of sense 3x and KQ (maybe 88,KK,AA occasionally) that along with the fact that your not getting great odds on a call are making me think fold. Furthermore when aggressive and hyper aggressive players all of sudden slow down its more than likely they have something very strong. Just my thoughts your right though 8x makes a ton of sense given your reads.

dboy23 · #8 04-29-2007, 03:50 PM

I never said he wasn't a donk. I think he picked way too many spots to bluff during the entire match.

And yes a Q is higher unlikely.

dboy23 · #9 04-29-2007, 03:52 PM

Also, with as much weakness as I have been showing (flop cbet doesnt really count as strength) I think he would probably bet out the river with a 3.

I think with everything considered, I am ahead of his range on the river push.

cwar · #10 04-29-2007, 04:35 PM

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Right but all things considered we would have to assume if he were going to bluff he would lead the river too, so we are dealing with very non-standard lines here at this point no matter what he has when he c/raises.
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He could be a great player, but right now his game is a bit too aggressive

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Well you put this in the OP so I assumed he wasnt donkish and had a thought process. The more donkish he is (the wider I assume he float range is) the more I would call the more I respect him the more often I expect him to show up with a hand here.