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#91
03-04-2006, 02:00 PM
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Re: My choices
[ QUOTE ]
And what's up with all the T8s folders? [/ QUOTE ] Two limpers to us is nice, but this table is 40/8. I'd rather limp in this spot at like a 40/2. I want to get in cheaply, and it's likely to be raised behind us. We are still in early position. I don't think it's an easy fold for sure. I could limp. I guess I've been getting raised a lot lately, when I limp in EP, heh. 
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#92
03-04-2006, 02:05 PM
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Re: My choices
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] And what's up with all the T8s folders? [/ QUOTE ] Two limpers to us is nice, but this table is 40/8. I'd rather limp in this spot at like a 40/2. I want to get in cheaply, and it's likely to be raised behind us. We are still in early position. I don't think it's an easy fold for sure. I could limp. I guess I've been getting raised a lot lately, when I limp in EP, heh. [/ QUOTE ] Word - I chose limp but folding isn't bad. I never get these [censored] sooted connectors in late postion.
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#93
03-04-2006, 02:13 PM
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Re: Graph of results
Great post! For a newbie like me, it was great to compare actions. I learned a lot and made a few, probably costly, errors.
One comment for low ML players, the UTG raise doesn't seem so scary, and when the pot is big enough it seems worth a shot. You see a lot of BS raises at .25/.50 and below. I guess as I move up the limits, it deserves more attention. I'd like to see more of these, especially post-flop.
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#94
03-04-2006, 03:24 PM
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Re: Graph of results
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see more of these, especially post-flop. [/ QUOTE ] Uh, open up almost any thread here. Instant postflop hand quiz! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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#95
03-04-2006, 04:37 PM
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Re: My choices
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] And what's up with all the T8s folders? [/ QUOTE ] Two limpers to us is nice, but this table is 40/8. I'd rather limp in this spot at like a 40/2. I want to get in cheaply, and it's likely to be raised behind us. We are still in early position. I don't think it's an easy fold for sure. I could limp. I guess I've been getting raised a lot lately, when I limp in EP, heh. [/ QUOTE ] the fact that you will be the third limper makes it less likely that it gets raised behind you. typical players start to do the "lets not invest too much before i see a flop" thinking when everyone starts limping. so someone who may raise 99 or TT will likely just limp it. same with AJ and KQ. but yes, sometimes it will get raised behind you. but often you'll have good pot building position vs. the preflop raiser. if you dont, it will likely be a 6+ to the flop, and you have a hand that thrives playing against bad, loose players. i have a feeling that if i put, "first three players limp to you in MP," the results would have been completely flipped. the problem is that it really isnt a very different situation. people see "UTG" and fear limping.
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#97
03-04-2006, 10:53 PM
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Re: My choices
Miles-
NH. Preflop is definitely not gay. I see so much questionable PF play in hand posts here. I have a question for you, though. Your answers to both 9 and 10 disagree with Mssrs. Miller, Sklansky and Malmuth, unless I'm missing something. What do you know different that makes you answer the way you did? Why do people think that odds matter PF? Is this the point you were making with Q1? THe flop alters the hand so dramatically that any PF odds must be irrelevant, yet a lot of posts seem to mention them.
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#98
03-04-2006, 11:14 PM
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Re: My choices
[ QUOTE ]
Why do people think that odds matter PF? Is this the point you were making with Q1? THe flop alters the hand so dramatically that any PF odds must be irrelevant [/ QUOTE ] By that logic do you limp 72o UTG?
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#99
03-05-2006, 12:52 AM
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Re: My choices
[ QUOTE ]
By that logic do you limp 72o UTG? [/ QUOTE ] I don't know. I keep getting all these crappy face cards and stupid pairs, ugh!!!
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#100
03-05-2006, 03:00 AM
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Re: My choices
You're right in that odds aren't everything. What also matters is how the hand plays postflop. This means how many tough decisions are you going to be faced with. Take a hand like 44. If you "hit," in that you hit a set, you're very likely to win, you're going to make a lot, you're going to lose a lot if you lose, but that's not that bad considering how often you win, and you're not going to face any tough decisions. In this case, w/ 44, the flop makes or breaks your hand: no set, no bet (at least for the most part at lower limits). Thus, pot odds are key. What are your odds to hit a set? What are your current pot odds? How many bets do you need to make up in order for calling to be +EV? Can you do it? This goes for a lot of suited connectors, too.
Now, OTOH, take a hand like A5o. If you're OOP in a raise pot with this hand, you're in a really tough spot. You're very likely to face many tough decisions. Furthermore, when you win, you tend to win a small pot, but when you lose, you lose more, unless you play very passively, when you risk medium to win medium. No option is very attractive. In this case, pot odds are not all that meaningful because of how much is going to depend on postflop play. While high card strength is key, cards w/ moderate high card strength and nothing else can be very difficult to play. And you tend to take them past the flop w/ single pairs, which are quite vulnerable. Thus, pot odds are less likely to determine whether or not you play your hand.
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