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#11
11-02-2007, 04:06 PM
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Re: PS $50 KQ flops TP in limped pot, non-drawy flop; action on the tu
[ QUOTE ]
OK, everyone wants to bet... Poker Stars, $50 + $5 NL Hold'em Tournament, 10/20 Blinds, 9 Players LegoPoker Hand History Converter SB: 2,580 BB: 3,130 UTG: 2,970 UTG+1: 2,940 Hero (UTG+2): 3,050 MP1: 2,930 MP2: 4,140 CO: 3,060 BTN: 2,180 Pre-Flop: (30) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG+2) UTG folds, UTG+1 calls 20, Hero calls 20, 3 folds, BTN calls 20, SB calls 10, BB checks Flop: (100) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players) SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">UTG+1 bets 20</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to 100</font>, BTN calls 100, 3 folds Turn: (320) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">Hero bets 220</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to 520</font>, Hero Now what? [/ QUOTE ] You got what you wanted . . . push. There are so many things he could be doing this with when the Q falls, and most of them are bad for him. 
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#12
11-02-2007, 04:20 PM
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Re: PS $50 KQ flops TP in limped pot, non-drawy flop; action on the tu
Well I just called...
Poker Stars, $50 + $5 NL Hold'em Tournament, 10/20 Blinds, 9 Players LegoPoker Hand History Converter SB: 2,580 BB: 3,130 UTG: 2,970 UTG+1: 2,940 Hero (UTG+2): 3,050 MP1: 2,930 MP2: 4,140 CO: 3,060 BTN: 2,180 Pre-Flop: (30) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG+2) UTG folds, UTG+1 calls 20, Hero calls 20, 3 folds, BTN calls 20, SB calls 10, BB checks Flop: (100) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players) SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">UTG+1 bets 20</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to 100</font>, BTN calls 100, 3 folds Turn: (320) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">Hero bets 220</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to 520</font>, Hero calls 300 River: (1,360) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players) Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets 1,380</font>, Hero...
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#13
11-02-2007, 04:38 PM
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Re: PS $50 KQ flops TP in limped pot, non-drawy flop; action on the tu
Really interesting hand Sherman.
Logically, I don't see the A helping him... did limp preflop with AA/AK/AQ? I doubt it. Did he make it to the river with A9? Probably not, unless it was exactly Ac9c. But I've noticed that every now and then people don't play logically....... Anyway, you're getting 2:1 so are you ahead here 1/3 of the time? I think you are. I'd reluctantly call here and expect to have been Bendered when he shows 55. Matt Bender
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#14
11-02-2007, 04:56 PM
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Re: PS $50 KQ flops TP in limped pot, non-drawy flop; action on the tu
I probably would have just called the turn too sherman.
River sucks...man that's a weird bet size, I mean it looks like the nuts, but he can't have the nuts can he? If it's not the nuts then it looks like a bluff, but what the hell did he call the flop with, brick, and is now bluffing with on the river? I guess 55 may pound the river that hard here (I wouldn't), but it seems kinda unlikely (I mean he has to think you have a K9-KQ type of hand, and most of that is folding to a river bet this large.) This spot is [censored]...in the end I think I'd call out of pure confusion, see JT, then be even more confused. edit: the more I think about it the weirder it gets...I mean I'd even think anything that he's floating with would have made some kind of a hand at some point and stopped bluffing...this is a great hand sherman I'm stumped.
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#15
11-02-2007, 05:03 PM
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Re: PS $50 KQ flops TP in limped pot, non-drawy flop; action on the tu
[ QUOTE ]
Well I just called... Poker Stars, $50 + $5 NL Hold'em Tournament, 10/20 Blinds, 9 Players LegoPoker Hand History Converter SB: 2,580 BB: 3,130 UTG: 2,970 UTG+1: 2,940 Hero (UTG+2): 3,050 MP1: 2,930 MP2: 4,140 CO: 3,060 BTN: 2,180 Pre-Flop: (30) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG+2) UTG folds, UTG+1 calls 20, Hero calls 20, 3 folds, BTN calls 20, SB calls 10, BB checks Flop: (100) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players) SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">UTG+1 bets 20</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to 100</font>, BTN calls 100, 3 folds Turn: (320) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">Hero bets 220</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to 520</font>, Hero calls 300 River: (1,360) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players) Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets 1,380</font>, Hero... [/ QUOTE ] Nothing scares him, this guy. Almost like it doesn't matter what cards fall, he's going to do what he's doing . . . if I had a set, your call on the turn would have at least given me pause. He either has J10 or he's FOS. This is a very tough hand to figure . . . very interesting . . . I think he's FOS. Push.
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#16
11-02-2007, 05:16 PM
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Re: PS $50 KQ flops TP in limped pot, non-drawy flop; action on the tu
oh dear.
I too would lead the turn. I just would hate myself for not doing so because if QJ/Q10 calls on the flop, my experience tells me they call again on the turn. Or minraise it if they are tricky position players. You can notch QJ and Q10 as tricky hands that would try to make a steal now. It's very possible. Finally, if you check, what do you plan on doing, check/raising???? I hate it. I think you have to maintain an attack here. One problem with leading here, incidentlaly, which is why it's closer than it may seem, is that what are you representing at this point but a straight or a two pair? And why is he check raising then? But, you have to live with it. The lsat thing you want is for him to ask "why is HE checkraising." Pushing here is silly on the turn. There is only one hand here that you are ahead of that has a "ton" of outs - KcJc or maybe Ac9c. That by far outweighs the two hands that you could be in much better shape against - QJ and Q10. I am trying to be more and more apt to thinking that that ONE flush draw hand I'm worried about is just ONE hand out of another 15+ combos. I don't do well by it, but I'm trying. Maybe it's time to go back to NL50 for a few weeks and codify this thinking process. OK - the river. I lean toward a block bet here, the more and more I think about it. The way it's played, the last thing you want is to check here and give the button an impulse to bet. The button has showed throughout the hand that he's either setting you up for a trick or a treat (Happy Belated Halloween, 2+2). I don't know if he's FPSig or luring you in, but I don't want to see wtf that river bet is here. If you block bet, you effectively force him to figure out wtf is going on. If he RRs you, I think you can safely fold. 350 would do. Barry PS: Against this particular opponent, your 350 bet will appear real to him. Of course, against a good opponent, he wouldn't have taken this line whether he was bluffing or playing the winning hand to begin with.
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#17
11-02-2007, 05:26 PM
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Re: PS $50 KQ flops TP in limped pot, non-drawy flop; action on the tu
PF is meh...if it is a mistake (by mistake I mean not raising PF) it's only a small one at best.
If you folded the river then I think you played the hand fine...for me the cold-call of the raise on the flop, followed by the raise on the turn = your screwed. - JA
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#18
11-02-2007, 05:52 PM
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Re: PS $50 KQ flops TP in limped pot, non-drawy flop; action on the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] sherman...do you usually limp KQ here? [/ QUOTE ] TBH, I don't know. I think sometimes I limp and sometimes I raise. Early on in the MTT I am more prone to limp...I think. I'd actually have to go check my hand histories to see what I "usually" do, b/c I have no idea. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] offsuit I almost 100 fold in UTG+1...suited I like a limp with your post flop skills...a lot of people will have troouble with it though
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#19
11-02-2007, 06:02 PM
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Re: PS $50 KQ flops TP in limped pot, non-drawy flop; action on the tu
[ QUOTE ]
If you folded the river then I think you played the hand fine...for me the cold-call of the raise on the flop, followed by the raise on the turn = your screwed. - JA [/ QUOTE ] I don't completely disagree with this line of thought, but if you consider the action so far, Villain could just be over-aggressive against what might be perceived as a weakly-played hand. [ QUOTE ] OK - the river. I lean toward a block bet here, the more and more I think about it. The way it's played, the last thing you want is to check here and give the button an impulse to bet. The button has showed throughout the hand that he's either setting you up for a trick or a treat (Happy Belated Halloween, 2+2). I don't know if he's FPSig or luring you in, but I don't want to see wtf that river bet is here. If you block bet, you effectively force him to figure out wtf is going on. If he RRs you, I think you can safely fold. 350 would do. [/ QUOTE ] This is very smart, and I need to remember this, because I find myself in this situation fairly often. In the hand as played, though, do we just fold to the almost-AI? If we had the straight, would we be pushing, or making a value bet? It almost looks like the guy DOESN'T want us to call. My brain hurts.
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#20
11-02-2007, 08:02 PM
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Re: PS $50 KQ flops TP in limped pot, non-drawy flop; action on the tu
It's possible Villian is a tard no doubt...maybe he's a tard that doesnt know what a river value bet means...but it's more possible that Hero is beat....readless this has to be a fold...I think if anything Villian wants to see if Hero stacks off w/TPwhocaresK (or 2P) on the turn...i.e. trying to induce a shove...which is why I'm leaning towards Villian having a set than J10 even though J10 is quite possible as well.
Agree w/block bet but I would make it more like ~500-750...anything less than that looks like a block...and fold to the raise obv. - JA
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