Don't raise AK preflop, ever acceptable?

[Taso]

lol, I don't know what I was thinking. Every now and then I have some ridiculous ideas about poker, and then after talking to someone relativley intelligent, I go "wow, that was stupid."

Agree with you guys, I'll just raise bigger than usual pre and take advantage of the bad play.

This reminds me of when I first started playing this game, one of the players kept hitting flushes on me, despite me betting fairly big amounts. So I tell my other friend, "next time, I'll just bet really small, and if he calls I'll know he has the flush draw, so I don't lose as much", and of course my friend turns to me and goes "uhh, why don't you just bet larger than usual, so he's always getting really bad odds to call, and he'll over-pay to hit the flush"...Of course I immedietly realized my stupidy :P

Anywho, thanks for the answers.

[shootaa]

not raising with AK is pretty bad unless you can limp reraise with it and get called by worse a decent amount of the time. even then, making that your standard play would be terrible.

just raise, double barrel more or check raise flops if you're getting floated a lot. there are plenty of other ways to adjust to these types of players, don't adjust by not raising your good hands.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

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By raising a greater amount with AK - one also tell the other players one has AK. They can thus play against one perfectly.

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Exactly. There are plenty of times when I don't raise w/ AK. If I'm on the button and 3-6 have limped in, there's nothing wrong w/ seeing the flop cheaply. In limit though, I raise 100% of the time.

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How about cranking it up big time and making the limpers fold or pay waaay too much to see the flop? Taking a flop 4-7 way with AK is just about the worst way to play the hand.

[LarryLaughs]

If the game is loose, I would just raise a bit more as a standard raise.

Also, then you can stop c-betting with AK in a loose game with many pf limp-callers. Only bet if you have TPTK+ or a good draw (would be flush in this case). In a loose preflop game you can play the flop "fit or fold" if you get enough callers, since with two callers you do win often enough just by hitting the flop TPTK. In a heads up pot hand you could not do that since you only hit the flop about once in three times. I mean if you know for a fact that the opponents will call with anything (medium pair+) on the flop, you should not bet with air.

[TheBad]

I was in the same situation this weekend. Almost 2 buy-ins because they kept calling and i couldn´t connect. AK biggest looser over 2k hands..
I am trying 3 things now:
-If i think they will call anywhere, i let them pay. 6 BBs not enough ? Make it 8. Still 2 callers ? Make it 10.
-As long as there are always 3 players calling, raising should bring an immediate profit.
-Smaller c-bets. A little bit over 1/2 potsize. It seems to me that they make their decissions according to their cards, not their odds.

[Woolygimp]

Christ, I'll raise 67o OTB vs limpers. Tards who don't raise AK, and that have such a polarized range are so easy to play against.

To the poster above me, don't c-bet into 5 calling stations.

[GeeBeeQED]

My comments relate to a cash game.

I think LarryLaughs is the only one on this board that understands how to play this relativly weak holding. The rest of you need to get your nose out of the book. ;-) It's situational and the primary situation of concern is the number of people your playing it against and the type of players your likely facing. Raising with it everytime (especially to high blind multiples) shows me you have fear of playing the hand post flop. You don't think you can read or make the correct decision. Sure it's a raise more than it's a limp. If I'm in the cutoff or on the button and it's folded to me, I'm not raising most of the time with calling stations to my left. I want them to hit thier donk ace or K if they have one and think "wow a miracle in the blinds!". Afterwhich I milk them hard as I think I can on flop and push them out on the turn.....more often than not.

In the BB and it's folded around to me I would almost NEVER raise with it. People who do then find themselves adding to thier bluffing frequency. You get this number too high and your just the kind of player I want to face. Nothing better.

If there are 6 players in the pot in front of me, I'm choosing a raise that I estimate gets it down to 3 callers so their calls are best +EV, least risk against my hand. If one of the players is a tough one whom I'm worried about I might raise more either to isolate to him or if that's not possible to encourage him to leave the pot. The basic principle here is this, I'm about 36% to hit but I'm putting in less than 36% of the pot preflop. Against 3 callers I've put in only 25% so the pot is certainly +EV for me and -EV for the rest of them unless one of them has a pair to start.

I hate bluffing with missed flops on AK. I've lost more money with that play. I rarely ever do it. There are lots of hands to bluff with but in general I think it's only a good idea (with missed AK) if the opponents are tight or weak and if it's a semi-bluff. I'd like to see at least a gutter and a runner runner flush possibility and have position to bluff here.

My comments are based on my typical games, I play NL. a little 1-2, a lot of 1-3 and a little 2-5 live. (Note, I'm talking $, not pennys)

I might get softer with this hand at lower stakes and raise a higher pecentage of the time at higher stakes and in general I'm making that adjustment on expected player quality in those games.

Why do so many players build a monster pot with a hand that usually at best is only a 1 pair hand? You want to sit in front of a bunch of donks (calling stations as described above) and put a huge chunk of your stack on the line with essentially a weak hand. Now you hit on the flop, make a pot size bet, 4 or 5 donks call (hey this is looking like the biggest pot of the night!!!! Yahooo!!!) This is how you transfer your chips to the donks and how you come up with all those borish bad beat stories. I don't think AK is a bigpot hand at a full table. I want to play my big pots with 2 pair or better. I'm there for the long haul, to leave with a profit, not to maximize my ROR with (this will really get them going) relatively paltry hands. Think about it, some are suggesting playing AK which is only about 36% to make top pair on the flop all the way to the river against 5 or 6 opponents for a big pot. It's a leak! Use your senses, pick better spots to fleece the donks, you don't have to go nuts with this hand. Play it to hit and make a decent pot. Don't be a pig or soon the donks will have your chips and let me tell you, that's exactly where I want them. I want them to suckout on you because those chips are alot easier to win off the calling stations than they will be to win off you. Is the light on in your head yet? This how a cash game really works and this is how the better players are thinking. The best table ever is one with 2 or 3 bad players with one or two who've vacuumed up all most of the chips in a series of suckouts. The chips are where I want them when I sit down.

There is certainly no short simple answer to most poker questions. In fact, I've certainly left quite a bit out of this one like middle pos play of AK.

All hands are situational, there is no "always" way to play a hand.

Dave

[Matt Williams]

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By raising a greater amount with AK - one also tell the other players one has AK. They can thus play against one perfectly.

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Exactly. There are plenty of times when I don't raise w/ AK. If I'm on the button and 3-6 have limped in, there's nothing wrong w/ seeing the flop cheaply. In limit though, I raise 100% of the time.

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How about cranking it up big time and making the limpers fold or pay waaay too much to see the flop? Taking a flop 4-7 way with AK is just about the worst way to play the hand.

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I'm not saying never raise. But you have to mix it up. If you always raise w/ it, good players will know you DON'T have it if you don't raise. I mean c'mon. How many times do you see nits only raise p/f with pocket aces and you stack them because they overplay the hand? If you are playing $1/2 NL and 5 limp in and you make it $15-20 or whatever, a good player will see the raise for what it is. He'll call knowing whether or not the flop hit you. If you are in a passive game, you can limp in w/ position and bet if it's checked to you because you will have the best hand. And if someone has top pair on a K 9 5 board, they will chase to the river anyway because they won't put you on AK. Again, I'm not saying never raise w/ it. Occasionally. As in like 5% of the time.

[ROcketRO]

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By raising a greater amount with AK - one also tell the other players one has AK. They can thus play against one perfectly.

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Exactly. There are plenty of times when I don't raise w/ AK. If I'm on the button and 3-6 have limped in, there's nothing wrong w/ seeing the flop cheaply. In limit though, I raise 100% of the time.

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seeing the flop cheaply with AK... there's a thought... why not limp with AA to get a cheap flop? someone might flop a set, maybe quads.
also, might be better to just fold AK preflop. after all AK is just two cards, two random cards, not even a pair. i made up my mind. i'm folding AK preflop from now on.

[Woolygimp]

holy f***ing [censored]. this forum is worst than i thought, this is an absolute abomination.

I'm being brutally honest here, everyone who posted in this thread almost assuredly sucks at poker. You might want to limit the amount of time you play casually, but there is a fundamental lack of knowledge surrounding the core basics of game concept generated by the players in this thread.

You, all, are bad at poker. That is all. I'll be damned if one of my opponents ever says, "he raised, he must have AK."

That's because I don't suck at poker, and I know the importance of image and meta-game.