Rudy G's Tough Talk

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The main knock on Guiliani I've heard from most conservatives is that he's extremely authoritarian and big-government. He supports the national ID cards. His belief in the 2nd amendment is questionable. From what he says in the debates, I get the impression he thinks people should give up all their rights and privacy in order to let the govt protect them from terrorists.

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IMO, Giuliani is basically a modern-day Liberal except when it comes to law enforcement and Big Brother. Then he's a Republican plus.

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One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

[Moseley]

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One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

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I'm a liberal and do not believe that. Bush is a conservative and initiated the patriot act.

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One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

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I'm a liberal and do not believe that. Bush is a conservative and initiated the patriot act.

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It had to be voted on and pass correct? You can honestly say you do not believe that any of the democratic nominations for president arent salivating at having access to so much power? Get real, your party lines are blinding the real issue. Ill bet we are in complete agreement about a lot of things, its just that you think the libs arent as guilty of things, which is blatantly false.

[Moseley]

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One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

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I'm a liberal and do not believe that. Bush is a conservative and initiated the patriot act.

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It had to be voted on and pass correct? You can honestly say you do not believe that any of the democratic nominations for president arent salivating at having access to so much power? Get real, your party lines are blinding the real issue. Ill bet we are in complete agreement about a lot of things, its just that you think the libs arent as guilty of things, which is blatantly false.

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They are salivating over being the head puppet for the special interests, which will benefit their personal future.

You must be one of those silly americans who still believes the politicians run this country.

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One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a liberal and do not believe that. Bush is a conservative and initiated the patriot act.

[/ QUOTE ]


It had to be voted on and pass correct? You can honestly say you do not believe that any of the democratic nominations for president arent salivating at having access to so much power? Get real, your party lines are blinding the real issue. Ill bet we are in complete agreement about a lot of things, its just that you think the libs arent as guilty of things, which is blatantly false.

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They are salivating over being the head puppet for the special interests, which will benefit their personal future.

You must be one of those silly americans who still believes the politicians run this country.

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nothing to do with teh discussion, not saying I disagree, but you are going off on a tangent. Its possible to be salivating over more than one thing on your dinner plate.

[Moseley]

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nothing to do with teh discussion, not saying I disagree, but you are going off on a tangent. Its possible to be salivating over more than one thing on your dinner plate.

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Why are they salivating over having such power? Is it an ego thing?

And don't forget the act that brought our freedoms in peril:
The Military Commissions Act. The same type of thing our citizens of past decades dealt with.

John Adams, with his Alien and Seditions Act, jailed newspaper editors.

Woodrow Wilson, with his Espionage Act, prosecuted 2k americans, most of whom were only guilty of vocalizing their advocacy for peace.

American speakers in American jails, for what they said about America.

FDR, with his executive order 9066, was necessary to save American lives, only to use it to imprison 110k Americans.
Secretary DeWitt told Congress: It does not matter that he/she is an American. They are still Japanese.

110k Americans. And they didn't even speak out against America.

How many people who post here, would love it, if those who do not agree with their view, could not post a reply. That they would have to post their reply on another forum, way out of the way of this one, and would be limited in what they could say there also.

That's what Bush got with his "Free Speech Zones."

Show me a presidential nominee who is screaming about doing away with the patriot act and every other act that imperils our freedoms and liberties, and then I may just consider registering to vote. Until then, I'm a Survivalist.

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nothing to do with teh discussion, not saying I disagree, but you are going off on a tangent. Its possible to be salivating over more than one thing on your dinner plate.

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Why are they salivating over having such power? Is it an ego thing?

And don't forget the act that brought our freedoms in peril:
The Military Commissions Act. The same type of thing our citizens of past decades dealt with.

John Adams, with his Alien and Seditions Act, jailed newspaper editors.

Woodrow Wilson, with his Espionage Act, prosecuted 2k americans, most of whom were only guilty of vocalizing their advocacy for peace.

American speakers in American jails, for what they said about America.

FDR, with his executive order 9066, was necessary to save American lives, only to use it to imprison 110k Americans.
Secretary DeWitt told Congress: It does not matter that he/she is an American. They are still Japanese.

110k Americans. And they didn't even speak out against America.

How many people who post here, would love it, if those who do not agree with their view, could not post a reply. That they would have to post their reply on another forum, way out of the way of this one, and would be limited in what they could say there also.

That's what Bush got with his "Free Speech Zones."

Show me a presidential nominee who is screaming about doing away with the patriot act and every other act that imperils our freedoms and liberties, and then I may just consider registering to vote. Until then, I'm a Survivalist.

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You are using an argumentative tone w/ me (unless my perceptions are wrong), and yet I agree with your stance?


I dont know if it is an ego thing, but a lot of it is a free speech issue (dems push to silence talk radio comes to mind). any of these people want unlimited access to power, they just dont want anyone else to have it too. I still vote though.

[Ron Burgundy]

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Show me a presidential nominee who is screaming about doing away with the patriot act and every other act that imperils our freedoms and liberties, and then I may just consider registering to vote. Until then, I'm a Survivalist.

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I think there was a guy named Ru Paul or something...

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The main knock on Guiliani I've heard from most conservatives is that he's extremely authoritarian and big-government. He supports the national ID cards. His belief in the 2nd amendment is questionable. From what he says in the debates, I get the impression he thinks people should give up all their rights and privacy in order to let the govt protect them from terrorists.

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

-- Rudy

[John Kilduff]

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The main knock on Guiliani I've heard from most conservatives is that he's extremely authoritarian and big-government. He supports the national ID cards. His belief in the 2nd amendment is questionable. From what he says in the debates, I get the impression he thinks people should give up all their rights and privacy in order to let the govt protect them from terrorists.

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

-- Rudy

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Even better than Orwell.