folding oesd's pains me

[Josh.]

MP is retarded (51/30), Button is a bad lag (37/16), and villain (SB) is on the loose-passive side, 29/11/1.6.

i didn't think he'd fold anything on the flop, so if i raise, i'm committing to shove the turn. i also didn't love the idea of calling with the lag button behind me. he's capable of making some bad raises, and his presence increases the chances that someone out there has a hand they're willing to get it in with


Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $2/$4 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $575.00
BB: $486.40
UTG: $688.30
MP: $895.10
Hero (CO): $619.20
BTN: $371.90

Preflop: Hero is dealt 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $14.00</font>, Hero calls $14.00, BTN calls $14.00, SB folds, BB calls $10.00

Flop: ($58) 8 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 (4 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $33.00</font>, MP folds, Hero folds.

[xorbie]

straight draws on paired boards are waaay worse than flush draws so while i would never fold its probably the slightly better move.

[Caballa]

Call, especially with the backdoor flush draw. If villain is loose passive, they might only call button's potential donk raise if they have an eight, giving you good odds (implied and otherwise) to hit the straight.

I think you're overthinking the hand, though. It's barely a half-pot bet you're facing, and if you fold every time you hit an oesd on a paired board you're missing out on some value.

[luegofuego]

fold looks good, preflop looks slightly -ev with that button left to act.

[jfish]

blah looks good.

[jackflashdrive]

[ QUOTE ]
straight draws on paired boards are waaay worse than flush draws so while i would never fold its probably the slightly better move.

[/ QUOTE ]

A straight draw is much more concealed than a flush draw, and consequently I would argue it is the better hand to call with. When you hit you can reasonably be getting action from worse made hands (whereas with a flush draw you have to worry about higher flushes and boats much more).

I think this probably overcomes the slightly increased chance that hitting your hand makes someone a boat (if they didn't have it already) on a board coordinated for a straight draw.

[luegofuego]

"slightly increased" isnt the phrase ur looking for.

[Requin]

You guys are nuts. Bad lag is also capable of making lots of bad calls.

[DJ Sensei]

i dont quite see why we have to fold here. the pot is still pretty small, and just because a LAG button is in there doesnt mean he's gonna raise. Plus, isnt somebody having a big hand exactly what we want here, so we can get paid big implied style when we get there? Obv sucks if he has 66/86, or our gin card fills him up, but thats a pretty small part of the range of big hands that would go to war.

[Requin]

I don't think our implied odds are very good, but were getting decent direct odds.