Day 1 ME Hand - The Trouble With Small PPs

For clarity, how deep does everyone think we need to be to call pre here? I'll admit, if I was supposed to fold this PF, then this is a probably a sizeable leak in my game.

[LuckyLloyd]

20k+ maybe?

[THEOSU]

kramer,

i used to go on a baseline of calling with small pairs requiring 10-1 implied odds, but i've discovered that calling getting near 10-1 is -EV for the reasons stated above: i don't always get paid when i flop a set, and then there's the rare times that i flop a set and it's no goot.

i haven't established a firm baseline for myself yet, but i know it varies. against some opponents i will call getting even less than 10-1, because i think i'll be able to win the pot often enough without flopping the set. against others i might need as much as 15-20.

ah, the old, crappy 'it depends' argument.

[coxquinn]

fold FP isnt super standard?

[betgo]

Can anyone explain why folding pf is better than pushing preflop? I would often push as a semibluff/resteal. You can't be in that bad shape against the calling range.

Also, you obviously can't flat call and play for a set, and it is hard to know if you are ahead, but if you play well in this type of situation, calling seems viable.

IMO folding is a leak.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone explain why folding pf is better than pushing preflop? I would often push as a semibluff/resteal. You can't be in that bad shape against the calling range.

Also, you obviously can't flat call and play for a set, and it is hard to know if you are ahead, but if you play well in this type of situation, calling seems viable.

IMO folding is a leak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betgo,
Can you explain why pushing preflop is better than raising to 4500-5000 preflop and shoving any flop?

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone explain why folding pf is better than pushing preflop? I would often push as a semibluff/resteal. You can't be in that bad shape against the calling range.

Also, you obviously can't flat call and play for a set, and it is hard to know if you are ahead, but if you play well in this type of situation, calling seems viable.

IMO folding is a leak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betgo,
Can you explain why pushing preflop is better than raising to 4500-5000 preflop and shoving any flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
That's fine too. With a small pp, villain tends to play correctly to your go and go. I like the overbet push resteal play myself, as villain almost never calls light.

[ QUOTE ]
kramer,

i used to go on a baseline of calling with small pairs requiring 10-1 implied odds, but i've discovered that calling getting near 10-1 is -EV for the reasons stated above: i don't always get paid when i flop a set, and then there's the rare times that i flop a set and it's no goot.

i haven't established a firm baseline for myself yet, but i know it varies. against some opponents i will call getting even less than 10-1, because i think i'll be able to win the pot often enough without flopping the set. against others i might need as much as 15-20.

ah, the old, crappy 'it depends' argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

So him raising to 3BB instead of 4BB+ actually has a huge effect on this hand, as the former makes it a lot closer to a call PF (but still questionable, I guess).

[sinderg]

if somehow i lose my mind and find my self just cold callin a standard button c-bet then i defo shove the turn.

[A_PLUS]

Here is the way I look at it.

There is no way that either call is a +EV play, unless we are getting our chips in on the turn. The biggest problem with the hand, is we really need committ a huge amount of our stack, and most likely turn our hand into a complete bluff somewhere , unless the other guy is a complete weak tight nit. Depending on any physical read, I am probably C/R all-in on the flop. It isn't the best way to play the hand, but is rarely a huge mistake if he c-bets consistently.