Bet or slowplay?

[kurto]

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Don't even know why I posted the turn. I should have bet the flop. That's all I really wanted to know. Thanks for making it clear. I need to remember to continuation bet. I kind of forgot about it because it was my first hand at the table and I was so thrilled to see the set. I didn't want to scare the villain away.

Also, a friend and I were debating slowplaying this situation. He won.

I do wonder about flush draws, though. I do seem to lose a lot being scared of them. Must be a big leak.

BTW, river was a 9. Poor villain had 22. He was doomed no matter what. Only wish he had more behind.

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Here you have a situation where two players have monsters and are slowplaying the crap out of each other. I've seen people do this for ALL THREE STREETS.

No matter how deep his stack, you would like have gotten it all in by betting every street.

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I do wonder about flush draws, though. I do seem to lose a lot being scared of them. Must be a big leak.



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I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean you don't bet because you're afraid the flush will come? Or you don't bet because you're afraid the flush got there?

The first one is a leak. The second one is just being cautious.

[Panthro]

I just read the title of your post and the answer is bet.

[Javanewt]

kurto, I mean whenever I see two suited cards, I'm scared the villain has a flush draw. I either make them fold or completely slow down when the flush hits. I guess the point is to give them the wrong odds to call if they do have a flush draw, but often it just scares off worse hands that might call a smaller bet. I seem to either lose value or let them bet me off if the flush card comes. Horrible play, I know, but I think I'm TOO scared of flushes. Heads up, what are the odds that they have a flush draw?

At lower levels, though, it seems people will call a pot sized bet with a flush draw, so you can't really get them to fold, anyway.

[LearningCurve]

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kurto, I mean whenever I see two suited cards, I'm scared the villain has a flush draw. I either make them fold or completely slow down when the flush hits. I guess the point is to give them the wrong odds to call if they do have a flush draw, but often it just scares off worse hands that might call a smaller bet. I seem to either lose value or let them bet me off if the flush card comes. Horrible play, I know, but I think I'm TOO scared of flushes. Heads up, what are the odds that they have a flush draw?

At lower levels, though, it seems people will call a pot sized bet with a flush draw, so you can't really get them to fold, anyway.

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IDK if this is exactly correct but it seems like I remember reading somewhere the odds of someone holding two to a flush when there are two on the board is somewhere in the 13 - 16% range. Can't remember where I read it though so hopefully someone else can confirm whether this sounds close.

Regarding your comment about getting people off of flush draws at lower limits. QFT. However, you actually want villains to call your psb's. Afterall their mistake is your gain. There will absolutely be times when they will suck-out against you (and these occasions stink). Over time though, statistically speaking, you will come out ahead.

[Kevroc]

Didnt read any replies but, I wouldn't slowplay this.

Rasies PF in position are normally c-bets on flop.

You're going to bet most flops in this spot.

I hardly advise slowplaying anyhow... my last slowplay was with a medium pair a couple days ago.

88 UTG on 40/4 FR table. I limp and a few others call (unraised pot).

Flop comes 8 4 2 rainbow... if I lead out or c/r flop its sorta obvious i have a set, Axs UTG would be an outside shot.

It checked around and a 7 came off on turn that completed the 4 card rainbow. I bet $1 into $3 pot, CO raised to $4.. I raised to $8, CO raised to $16. I pushed him in for $44.

He held 77. Not a brag, just a rare slowplay example.

[kurto]

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kurto, I mean whenever I see two suited cards, I'm scared the villain has a flush draw. I either make them fold or completely slow down when the flush hits. I guess the point is to give them the wrong odds to call if they do have a flush draw, but often it just scares off worse hands that might call a smaller bet. I seem to either lose value or let them bet me off if the flush card comes. Horrible play, I know, but I think I'm TOO scared of flushes. Heads up, what are the odds that they have a flush draw?

At lower levels, though, it seems people will call a pot sized bet with a flush draw, so you can't really get them to fold, anyway.

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Of course we are nervous when there's an obvious draw out there that could ruin the pot we're expecting. But we're still the favorite. If they call PSBs with just 8 outs... we should be thrilled. Sometimes they'll outdraw us. Sometimes their flush will come in WHILE the board pairs. then we do real nice.

Sometimes they don't have the flush and are just as scared when it comes.

Point is... we all are nervous about flush draws. But that doesn't mean we should be slowing down before it gets there. As long as you are giving them improper odds, in the long run you should profit.

On another note- don't always assume the person's on a flush draw. Often times them have an overpair, 2 pair, etc. They're often just as afraid of the flush draw as you are.

But if the draw gets there, there's no harm in slowing down.

[Javanewt]

Thanks for the reminders. I have to remember the part about playing correctly and having others make the mistakes. If they suck out, tough luck to me. You are correct, I will come out ahead in the long run.

Question, though, is there a level where people stop chasing as much? I know there will be bad players at all levels (I'm one of them half the time), but does it get a little better?

[kurto]

I've currently play at $50 tables but have played everything from the $2 tables to $100. As you move up, there will be less chasers. Though the chasers will probably put you to the test earlier.

But you WANT chasers. If you don't have chasers, people will often have nothing to call on.

As you move up, you will find less people who will pay off you if YOU chase. Keep that in mind. If your flush gets there and no one pays you off, you're losing in the long run.

[crookdimwit]

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If you're ever in a situation where you have to wonder, "Should I slowplay" the answer is "No". If it's ever close, or if you are unsure of how to proceed you want to err on the side of betting. Slowplay, particularly at small stakes where most players are very straightforeward and/or very bad, is a precision tool and if you're not sure now is the right time to slowplay then do not slowplay.


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I agree with this almost entirely. Most of my worst beats came as a result of slow-playing a great, but not nut hand and getting run down by the river... I've got a lot of scar tissue thanks to moronic attempts to slowplay a strong hand.

My only exception to this rule is if you have a very specific read on an opponent who you KNOW will almost always bet out if you check. There's a aggro player at my home game who is such easy money most of the time because he will almost always bet big if someone shows weakness. And once he does it, if you call or raise, he's stuck in the middle of a big pot and will often pay you off big. But he's the rare exception to the rule. Few players are so utterly predictable... Generally speaking, slowplaying either loses you the chance to get money in the pot or gives an opponent a chance to outdraw you...